doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 28 gauge shell

I just received a 28 gauge hammer SxS today. It's a gun (lower quality) of French origin with barrels proofed in Belgium. No makers name. I was surprised at the marking of 28-65 within the open oval. So it is designating 2 1/2" chambers. When approximately did 2 3/4" chambers become the standard for the 28 gauge? Reading on the net, an article by Chuck Hawks says all 28 gauge are 2 3/4". That clearly isn't correct.

I have a high grade Ugartechea sidelock from the 50s that came with 65mm chambers.Bobby

I guess the Chuck Hawks article is http://www.chuckhawks.com/28gauge.htm . Maybe, the article refers to current shells on the market that are readily available.

Have you found 65mm shells?

I suppose that brass hull makers could supply 65mm.

http://rockymountaincartridge.com/Price_List.pdf shows for ten hulls:

28 Gauge 2�............................... $50.00

Gotta find some load data for that brass - RMC probably can come up the a reference.

Reloading for Shotgunners 5th Ed by Rick Sapp might have 65mm load data - it has data for a lot of different shells.

No problemo!!

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Gamebore-28ga-25-9_16oz-7-bx_25/productinfo/G2825GHP167/

And others at Ballistics Products

Mike

You guys must imagine Gunaholic is a resident of the US, with a wide assortment of products available to help him with his problem. In reality, poor old Guns lives in Canada, land of limited supply and even less selection. Brian, I feel for you.

James

Kent/Gamebore says:

If you are in Canada you can call our Canadian sales office for purchasing information, (800)844-1880.

http://kentgamebore.com/faq/

Come on, give encouraging information

Mike

p.s.
Q. What do I need to bring my firearms into Canada?
A. ALL fully automatic weapons, handguns and pepper spray are prohibited in Canada.
You must obtain a gun permit for your guns. Refer to www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca. You may bring a hunting rifle or shotgun into Ontario for hunting or Competition purposes in you are 18 years of age or older. Firearms must be Registered for a fee of $25. This permit is valid for a period of 60 days. You can also bring up to 200 rounds of ammunition for hunting or 1,500 rounds for use at a recognized shooting competition. Any amounts of ammunition in excess must be tax paid.
For more information contact 1-800-731-4000 or (705) 329-7662 or visit the Canadian
Firearms Centre at www.cfc-caf.gc.ca

The old US standard for the 28ga was I believe 2�". This converts to 63.5mm, a 65mm shell is 2 9/16". When I began shooting way back in the 1950s the standard US length for 28ga had become 2 7/8", I'm not sure just when that length was dropped to the present standard of 2 3/4".

I guess it's off to wholesale sports and see if they will order some Kents for me. I see RST has them as well but does me no good in Canada.

Skeettx, I was just having some fun with guns. He and I communicate regularly offsite and often bounce questions off each other before coming here.

The main problem for us in Canada with regard to ammunition is the export permits required to get it out of the US. It's not with the Canadian regulations for brining it in.

RST doesn't sell their stuff up here (that means they have made the decision the export hurdles are too much trouble for the estimated financial return). Game bore is our only option.

Brian, if wholesale won't order for you, my smith will. We were talking about combining on some orders a while ago and I just haven't done anything yet. Let me know if you run into any problems with wholesale and I'll get a combined order in.

BTW does anyone have any pressure data from Gamebore. I corresponded with the Canadian division this past Spring and couldn't get anything out if them.

Sounds to me like y'all need to get a U.S. 28 gauge skeet shooter to enter a Canadian event.

Y'all just list Canada as your location, so here are two.

http://ontarioskeet.com/

http://www.nssa-nsca.org/Lookups/NSSA_Club_Details.php?c=16288

I will do.

I have just been thru this problem. 65mm is not 2 1/2 in. It is about 2 5/8 which is about what most ammo is . 2 1/2 inch is 63.5 mm. I just ordered some 2 1/2 empties from Ballistic and to my frustration they are not 2 1/2 but marked 65mm. In my short chambered 12 ga gun they would hardly chamber. I called and complained about it and unfortunately they did not seem to understand the difference. As usual, I would not worry about shooting a "2 3/4 " in a 65 mm gun as it is close enough and likely the same chamber.

I personally wouldn't stuff long cartridges into it. There is a big difference in the proof pressure test for 2 1/2" chambers and the longer 2 3/4" ones with such a narrow bore. The standard load for these 2 1/2" ones is only 9/16th. ounce of shot whereas the 2 3/4" stuff can have up to 1 ounce. A bit like firing 12 bore 2 3/4" magnums in a 2 1/2" chambered game gun. All the British cartridge makers and all the European ones, as far as I can see, make ammo for the 2 1/2" 28 bore. Lagopus.....

I'm not sure when 2 3/4" became standard for the 28. Reading Miller's post, my initial thought was that we were already there by the 50's--but maybe not. My 1940 Shooters Bible shows 28ga shells available in both 2 7/8" and 2 1/2". No 2 3/4" at that time.

The first Parker 28's were short chambered.

bill

AND my Krieghoff 28 gauge has a 3 inch chamber

I have short chambered, lightweight 28s. They recoil heavily with factory loads. My Francotte weighs 4 3/4 pounds. I load regular 2 3/4" hulls with light shot loads with a bean or two to take up the extra space. I don't change the powder charge or wad. The lighter shot load lowers the pressure enough that I don't worry about the length of the shell. However, the idea about having a skeet shooter bring you some RSTs is a good one.

Here in the UK Gamebore sell their 28 bore,16gm in both plastic and fibre wad in a 65mm case with No 6 or 7 shot.
Their 19gm (No 6 & 7), 25gm (No 5 & 6) and 28gm (No 5) come in a 70mm case.
Not sure if this is any help.
John

I concur that Gamebore is the best option in Canada for 65mm compatible shells. That said one could probably get away with using 2 3/4 skeet loads without much problem. Under no circumstances would I suggest heavy field loads.

Another option is to go the reloading route and simply cutting down 2 3/4 hulls to 2 1/2 and either roll crimping or modifying a MEC Press to crimp them. I find the roll crimp route relatively painless and I get a real kick out of using the roll crimp shells.

Lastly SKEETTX I too have a 28 gauge marked with 3in chambers, though my is a plain jane Riunite Armi - E. Salvinelli (not an A&S) O/U from the early 60's. I believe it may still be possible to find 3in 28ga hulls in europe, though I not sure one should.

Old Colonel both YOU and my mother are/were Gentlemen
You by nature and she by act of congress
Enjoy the day
Mike

Yes, this is a route that I may look into.

James, it's no problemo for us here as well...you just have to know where to look

http://www.bilozir.net/

Bill Bilozir is the Canadian distributor for Ballistic Products, he's in Calgay

All best

CJ

CJO, That's what I get for entering a conversation about 28 gauge. LOL

Brain and I were talking off site about loaded shells, rather than reloading supplies but for both of us, given the direction our gun collections are going, re-loading may be in our future. It's not something I'm really drawn to, but I hate the very limited assortment of the specialty shells here. Unless you know of alternatives, it is what Kent chooses to carry, in Canada, of the Game Bore line.

Hope you have a good weekend. Get up north and get a few more of those delicious looking pike!

15 days until the grouse season opens, at least where I'm going!

James

SOOOOOOOOO, James and Brian and CJ are within reasonable distance. Sounds like a group buy in the making.
Maybe we can fly a C-130 in with the payload??
Good luck you folks from up NORTH.
Looking forward to duck season
and doves start tomorrow and I have the 410s out and ready

Mike

In the U.S. the standard 28-gauge shell from its introduction in the late 1890s to WW-II was a 2 1/2 inch shell with a 1 3/4 drams equiv. load and 5/8 ounces of shot. The manufacturers did offer 28-gauge 2 7/8 inch NPEs. Chas. Askins writes in his 1910 book The American Shotgun about handloading 2 1/8 drams of bulk smokeless powder and 3/4 ounce of shot in 2 7/8 inch 28-gauge cases for his Parker Bros. 28-gauge double with 30-inch barrels that weighed 6 3/4 pounds.

The first appearance I find of Western Cartridge Co.'s Super-X 28-gauge load with 3/4 ounce of shot, put up in their 2 7/8 inch Field shell is in their March 1, 1931, Western Ammunition for Rifle, Revolver and Shotgun booklet. With the first printing of their 1932 catalogue, Ithaca Gun Co. was again offering their doubles in 28-gauge, and ran some 28-gauge magazine ads about that time as well --



The first appearance of a 2 3/4 inch 28-gauge shell I find, is the Western Xpert Skeet Load with 3/4 ounce of shot which appears in Western's January 17, 1938, Price List. All three lengths are offered briefly after WW-II. The 2 1/2 inch 28-gauge shells are gone from Western's listings by April 1947, and between the March 1948, and February 1949, editions of the Western Ammunition Handbook, the Super-X 28-gauge load changes to a 2 3/4 inch case.

There's a good reason they call you "Researcher".

I'd suggest going the "cut down a 2 3/4 and roll crimp route", too. I do that for my 65mm 16. Works fine.

skeettx, we are not that close as distance goes but sure share an interest in guns.

CJO is about an hour from me in Ontario and I have been fortunate to spend some time in his company learning about these fine old doubles (and some newer ones as well!)

Gunaholic is in Winnipeg, my old home town and we discovered while communicating on line that we both have hunting cabins less than two miles apart at Delta Marsh. Before they built a new access road, I used to drive by his place all the time.

I love how the shared interest combines with the internet to lessen the distance between all of us.

Good catch on the skeet loads, Researcher. I looked again and found that 2 3/4" Xpert Skeet load in my 1940 Shooters Bible. Also a 2 3/4" Shur Shot skeet load. Missed those two the first time around.