doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stuck screws

I have a sxs 12g Simpson-Suhl model of 1932 that I am trying to take apart. The action body screws are rusted in big time. I removed all the wood and safetys and such but the four main screws and the hammer screws will not budge the small lock screws came right out, no problem. Its soaking in Kroils now but nothing has helped so far. I have never had a problem like this before and I have been building antique guns for many years . I have met my match for sure
Does anyone know if screws are available for these guns or am I going to have to make them? Or does anyone have another idea on getting them out if nothing else I will set it up in the mill and drill them out. The gun is not to bad and the wood is really in excellent condition so I would like to save it if possible.

Have you tried the drill press method? Put a screw driver (high quality that fits) in the chuck, apply enough down pressure that it can not cam out of the slot, turn the chuck. I can promise that something will move, won't promise what but it will move. I use a cross feed table to align it to perfection and hold it tight.

bill

Bill
Done that, also ordered new thin blade screw driver bits for the ones that shattered. I use my mill to hold the action.

rgh25, we discuss this topic fairly often here because a lot of the guns we work on are old and may have been used in wet weather or neglected. If you use the search function here and do a search on "penetrating oil" or "frozen screws", you will find a ton of ideas and solutions. But the first recommendation I will make is to try something different than Kroil which has failed consistantly for me on really stubborn screws. If Kroil works, it probably wasn't all that frozen in my experience. Then I would advise great patience before resorting to brute force which will possibly ruin or break the screws, and before drilling them out. I've had numerous screws that resisted all efforts including various penetrating oils, heat, cold, vibration, etc., finally easily break free after several weeks or months of soaking. This is a good reason to have more than one project gun in the pipeline. You can move on to something else while frequently re-applying penetrating oil on your stubborn screw.

Often several sharp taps with a hammer on a screw driver will break loose rust holding a screw. If a screw has had 80 years to get stuck a few weeks to break it free is not that much in the grand scheme of things. I have tried multiple penetrating oils and have had some work when others failed. No perfect oil out there.

I hesitate to even ask this, as I am afraid I might get the same sort of ridicule as suggesting JB Weld could fix pits, but has anyone tried a DeWalt hammer drill or impact driver on a stubborn screw?

Yes-but not gun screws. Leave them in the "tulebox" for rusted automotive fasteners. Or, corroded aircraft fasteners-you guys haven't lived if you haven't spent a day pulling carbon steel studs out of WWII vintage aluminum wing framework, or, even better, aluminum engine components.
I've seen a 50/50 mix of diesel fuel and ATF do wonders when a piston is stuck in the bore of a cylinder block, but, you leave the stuff in the bore on top of the offending piston, and don't really do much until you see some seepage past the rings. A swat with a rubber mallet every now and then. Not much else.
That can take months. It stinks, too.
Not sure how to use that formula on guns.

Best,
Ted

I used a tool similar to this for removing corroded-in-place phillips screws from outboard motors that have seen use in salt water. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/PROTO-Hand-Impact-Driver-Set-4JW91?Pid=search
The thing to keep in mind is that at the exact same time the tool is attempting to turn the screw, the same impact is also driving the blade deep into the screw slot and jarring the corroded threads. It worked well on outboard motors, so may be useful as a last resort to remove stuck blade type screws from a gun.
I do remember using it on phillips screws really saved the screw slots from becoming rounded out and useless.
Steve

In oil patch where we worked with monstrous bolts and nuts we would at times heat one and chill the other. I have often wondered if this would work in the small dimensions of a gun.

My solutions to tough screws on guns thus far has been to throw up my hands and send it out to someone else.

Many years ago I read that the best soak was desicanted kerosene. I didnt keep the instructions on making it but I remember it involved heating salt in the oven. I believe the kerosene is added to a jar of the dried salt then poured off. Although the internet has been a great joy for finding information,Ive never found anything on this concoction.

I have ran into the same problem with very stuck screws in century or more old guns. If made no progress after an extended penetrating oil soak I use this trick.

I grind the tip of a cheap soldering iron to fit the slot tightly. Every afternoon set up the iron in the slot and let it sit for 15 minutes or so to heat the entire screw all the way down the threads. Then put a few drops of oil around the head. As the screw cools it pulls the oil down in around the threads. After a week or so of this process every day they usually come out like they were installed yesterday.

Shane
I have tried all kinds of heating, but not your method. I will have to give it a try sure can't hurt at this point.

Shane,
That sounds like real good idea, a bit of trouble but I can see how it would work very well.
Steve

rgh25,
When you try the soldering iron trick, you might try 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone and the drill press trick,but try tightening/loosening back and forth. They weren't put in super tight,since they had lock screw, and may turn a little tightening, which may break the "rust bond".Home Shop Machinist Magazine tested different penatrating oils and the ATF/acetone worked best, but you have to shake it up to keep it mixed.
Mike

Okay, so I'm an idiot. What is ATF?

Automatic Transmisson Fluid

Never confuse idiocy and ignorance. Ignorance is correctable.
For a good example of the former, any post by hOjOe will provide adequate demonstration that idiocy is not correctable.



best,
Ted

Why don't you give it a rest Ted, you're just sounding small and petty. The only thing jOe is guilty of is being brutally honest with his opinions.
Steve

Ok you guys can stop worrying I got all but one out, it will have to be drilled. I am not sure which method worked the best as I used heat, kroil and a few words that I have written down for later use, (altho not approprate to print here) . I also ground some old broken Brownell's bits to fit the slot and used an impact driver with light taps with a solid blow hammer. Since the screws were already buggered up I figured I had nothing to loose as I wanted the action saved. once I got them to move everything (but one) came loose. I will make replacement screw since I don't think I can buy them anywhere.

Congratulations!!
Well done, well done
Let us see the final result please
Mike

I will post photos when I get it assembled. Still need to finish cleaning up the checkering on the stock and make screws and put a finish on the whole thing and..............

rgh25,
Check with New England Custom Guns, they might sell you a blank screw, with a thick head which can be turned up tight and marked for a new slot(to Clock it).They will need thread specs.
Mike