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Lloyd, it is my understanding that Webley & Scott did not license anyone else to use their patent for the screwgrip action. Therefore I believe all screwgrip actions originated in the Webley works.


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Mr.Wood: Thank you. I suspect that you are right. So...Webly & Scott supplied barreled actions to the other companies (even pairs of weapons?), who then stocked, engraved, and finished the firearms? They then, of course, put their names and addresses on them(?). I knew that Army & Navy did this, as well as William Evans, but I didn't (and still don't)know the level of participation of the many other makers, even the provincial ones. Is there any way to differentiate between who provided what action (aside from the screw-grip ones)? I have handled a number of lightweight boxlock guns, 2-inch 12s and even standard 2 1/2s (ie. Lincoln Jeffries), that were clearly made by Skimin & Wood. Thomas Turner made some very lightweight guns that were easy to identify as being sourced from Westley Richards. Were there others?

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Lloyd, let's see if Smallbore (Diggory Hadoke) will chime in. He's probably the best authority to answer your question. I believe his new book on box locks address' this.

While Webley would supply barreled actions in the white to the trade I do believe by far the majority were completely finished in the Webley & Scott works, carrying the name and serial number of whoever ordered it.

Last edited by Joe Wood; 12/24/12 02:45 PM.

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Joe, wouldn't the patent have run out at some point--after which others could have built screw grip guns? In France, Verney-Carron patented the helice action, but there are plenty of guns other than V-C that used it after the patent expired. Same deal with the A&D action. I don't think anyone building guns on the A&D action today is paying anyone else for the rights to use the design.

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I my be wrong, but my 1894 Remingtons have an extended stepped rib without any screw visable from the breech face. Did they alter the idea a bit so they could use the same three locking bits [ two under the barrels and one on top ]? Paul

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Couple of points. Note the photo of the gun with "Patent" around the thumb lever. Every gun I have seen so marked was a
Screw Grip, but not every Screw Grip was so marked. May have to do with production vs patent dates.

Second, I don't believe W&S used the Screw Grip action for best work guns. The top of the Screw Grip line was a very nice gun, indeed, but not quite a best work.

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The W&S screw grip was as far as I am aware was particular to W&S . Other makers considered it it be bulky and unnecessary ,as did the likes of Greener who still promoted their cross bolt . Webley made a large variety of guns ,not all had screw grip nuts.
The barrel extension with or without a dolls [club,spade] head is a common feature of guns made all over the world ,each maker establishing a "house" style that they stuck to in some cases for generations .They also adapted and modified others ideas as their own . Scott's square "improved" cross bolt is IMHO a much better design than the original ,but guns are still built using round cross bolts .
The barrel extension in conjunction with what we loosely term a Scott style top lever if fitted properly will give a gun extra bite but this should not be confused with lever actions that use an extension with some form of bolting as with some American guns ,that I am not familiar with , we see very few in the UK .But the average made American gun has a longer action body than European guns ,this coupled with a top locking mechanism negates the need for the bottom bolt . Top bites on English guns were after the development of the bottom bolt always in addition and not the principle locking device. Hidden third bites and the eventual abandonment of top extensions in most guns was as much to do with cosmetic appearance as any thing else ,this is seen in later Webley guns that still had a grip nut but it served no useful purpose other than in the 50's through till there demise the cost of redesigning and re tooling was considered to great to warrant any further changes .

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Originally Posted By: Rocketman

Second, I don't believe W&S used the Screw Grip action for best work guns. The top of the Screw Grip line was a very nice gun, indeed, but not quite a best work.


The Screw grip was referred to as their "Proprietary Action"......long way from the best of anything.

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hello jOe,
the propriety action was a basic grade, on offer for sale alongside several other different quality and specification grades of screw grip.i am surprised you are unaware of that or have chosen to ignore the fact.
of course i am fully aware that w&s screwgrip guns are a long way from best guns and whilst nowhere near the quality of hand made top tier bests,most people agree they are pretty good on reliability and looks, both in boxlock and sidelock variants.
cheers
mrwmartin


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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: Rocketman

Second, I don't believe W&S used the Screw Grip action for best work guns. The top of the Screw Grip line was a very nice gun, indeed, but not quite a best work.


The Screw grip was referred to as their "Proprietary Action"......long way from the best of anything.


Mr Martin, this is just our resident nattering nabob of negativity doing his thing. I think the concept inherent in your salutary "cheers" is lost on him. LOL

Last edited by canvasback; 12/27/12 09:57 AM.

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