doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How to date an Ugartechea SxS

Patrick, you can tell by the serial number that your gun is pre-1995. Otherwise, it would look like the SN on skeettx's guns. Yours will have the letter-number date code on the barrel flats. I have an Ugartechea boxlock from 1990 (Bill Hanus Birdgun), and the marks on the watertable of my gun are very different than yours. Mine also has a serial number of 193xxx. Unless Ugartechea used different SN series for different types of guns--which is entirely possible--the difference in SN (some 150,000 numbers) would seem to indicate that yours is pretty old.

From some information I have, it looks as if the Spanish retained the old date codes until 2000, which should mean that any Spanish gun made from 1995-2000 would have both the new and the old date codes, like skeettx's. Can others with Spanish guns from that time period confirm that?

patrickwall, the gun you're looking at appears to have been built in the early 1960's. In Wieland's Spanish Best, Ugartechea's S/N's show 1960: 39,990 and jumps to 1965: 50,702.

Lloyd3, your gun 57 03 12 97 was actually the 12th gun built in 1997. 57 is the maker's ID and the 03 signifies it's a shotgun.

Larry, it appears that you're correct as usual an Arrieta I have that was built in 1996 bares both codes and another Arrieta I have, built in 2007, only has the build year as part of the S/N and is sans the date code on the barrel flats.

Thank you, Wild Skies. I've owned several Spanish guns and can't fault them for function and value, but I fear I haven't peered as deeply into their past as I have with the English and American stuff. Wieland's book is the only reference I've used on the subject and it's obviously been awhile since I've opened it.

Well now, it looks as though I've been promoted to Sidelock with a smiley face and lots of stars. How does that work?

Purely FYI.

DIARM began in 1984 and was effectively a dead issue in 1988. It was an attempt to save the shotgun making industry in Spain, was completely voluntary, had the financial backing of the Spanish government, and was a complete failure. The gun makers who joined DIARM all went out of business in order to join DIARM.

After the failure of DIARM some of the former DIARM partners bought the AyA name and restarted AyA, but the pre- DIARM AyA and post- DIARM AyA are two different companies. Some of the people who had been Sarriugarte before Sarriugarte closed its doors to join DIARM started a new company; Keman.

All of the Spanish gun makers could and did make very high quality guns, and gun making skill was not limited to Grulla, Arrieta, AyA, Garbi, and Ugartechea. The best value in Spanish shotguns are generally found in the guns of the little known and unknown gun makers. Here is an example:












That�s a Vuida e Hijos de Francisco Arizaga (Widow and Sons of Francisco Arizaga). The gun is a two barrel set, with original traveling case, for which I paid 1500 Euro.

Errr�.

You�ll want to be a little careful with this. Spanish gun makers sell custom order guns. They will put any engraving pattern a customer wants on any model of gun the customer orders. Just because a gun has the engraving pattern shown on �Model A� in a catalog doesn�t mean the gun is a Model A.

I'd have to disagee about that gun being a 1030. The layout of the engraving is similar but that's where the similarities end. The quality of the engraving and gun overall doesn't match the 1030. Plus, the 1030 features archaded fences which the gun above doesn't have. Nor does that gun have drop points.... which 1030 does have.


HERE IS A MODEL 1030. Similar in appearance but 2 different guns.

This is a case in point of the dangers of trying to determine model purely by engraving. The current Ugartechea catalog shows the model 1030 with arcaded fences. Older catalogs show the 1030 without arcaded fences. One Ugartechea catalog shows the exact engraving on the gun you identify at as model 1030 on a model 100.

Here's another example. Based on engraving, what model is this Ugartechea? I'll give a hint; it's not a model 116.

Kyrie: Appreciate the DIARM info, and yes, lots of talented gunmakers in Spain. The only reason I mentioned the makers I did is because they are more of a "known entity" in that they've been around for a while now and have pretty good track records that they strive to protect. The "one-off" guns can still be lovely, but the market for them is frought with peril for the uninitiated.

Adam,

Is that gun yours? You sure do have some NICE guns - and quite a variety. I'm jealous of your opportunity to use them so much more than I can use mine.

Patrick, it is not mine. I don't own a 1030. Though I had a chance to buy one (actaully several... it was a 5-gun set) a couple years ago for a VERY good price. I foolishly passed. I think Greg (gjw) bought one of the guns I am referring to.

Adam