doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "New manufactured" Lefever project

I agree with the Vizla man on the subject of the duplication/reproduction/slavish recreation question. I'm pretty tired of hearing "Is it a "real" Parker, Fox, whathaveyou?" I don't care if it says Earle & Hurst on the sideplates. Getting rid of cocking indies--no problem. That isn't the essence of Lefever handling. However, if I can only afford one with laser checkering and acid chiseling I don't want it. My vote for 16/20 ga. if I had the shekels to toss on the blanket. Not sure I do.

jack

Well stated Ken.

I appreciate the significance of using a Lefever. I would hope that is the based on the best design "Uncle Dan" developed, not the 1st.

I like the fact that to a point it is a bespoke gun. I like the fact that I will choose the wood. I like the fact that I will choose the not only the engraving but also the engraver. I like the fact that some of the best in the American gun trade today will have a hand in this. I also am very aware that the men behind this offering have a lot more experience and knowledge than I do. They understand what it will take to bring this gun to market.

I also like the fact that will be certain limits, otherwise the manufacturing costs will run wild. I will happy if it a 20ga or 28ga or 16ga or .... because it will the best that can be produced in America today with a reasonable cost and allows me to have major say regarding the finished appearance.

I want to thank you Ken for coming up with this and moving on with it. As I confirmed with you privately, just let me know where to send the check.



Pete

Vizslas
Some of us Lefever Lover do feel that they are Icons.
If you want a 28 ga. Browning builds them, Lefever didnt. I would never down grade a Lefever this way. If you want a 28ga do it but dot put Dan's name on it.
Bob

Hey Mr. Pete --- where did you get that picture ? I wasn't mad, I was just tired at the end of a long day. Ken

Ken, I have a 20Ga Syracuse DS Grade Lefever that started out as a project gun 25 years ago and thanks to conscientious packers and movers in a relocation from New Orleans to SC, the parts got packed/lost in many safe places never to be found again. Your new Lefever project is very welcomed. I agree with many of the other folks - keep the basic gun simple. I like the idea of double triggers, 16/20Ga 28" barrels with a swamped rib, plain extractors, and manual safety - keep the design in keeping with the Lefever Syracuse gun.

I hope to see you at the upcoming Southern SXS - April 27-29.

I'm with Jack and Vizslas. There will always be those that believe only an exact replica is worthy of any name association with an original gun. And then there are those (some of the same crowd) that never accept the replicas and seem to put them in the catagory of cheap imitations. Those guys can always buy originals, no one is twisting their arm to buy a new version.

I think it should be thought of/treated as a new gun that honors the original designers, but is indeed the new maker's gun to change as they see fit.

Maker's can't please everyone. They should please themselves, IMO. If that pleases enough customers for the intent of the makers, it's successful for them. If some purists aren't satisfied, they should make their own gun in their vision.

One poster brought up the possible problem with suppliers that plagued Mr. Lamboy from day one. The result was that, years later, we don't know which variation, good or bad, we own or are contemplating buying. It looks like the only part that the Lefever project could face trouble with is the barrel assembly. If the suppliers of the barrel assemblies is reliable, the rest should fall into place. I don't believe Mr. Lamboy had the receiver situation under control before he addressed step two. It would be hard to believe that the barrel suppliers sunk the ship single handed and, as I remember, that did not happen. However, it could happen in the Lefever project if care is not taken.

Ken, see what I mean? You DO need more rest! We want you with us at least until I get my new LeFever! Again I vote for KISS, DT and extractors, money better spent on wood and engraving vice "new fangled thing-a-ma-bobs" that have lots of problems. I'll even live with 28" barrels in a light 20. Easy Does It! BILL

Ken: Great idea. I like it a lot better than the Fox Sterlingworth route we kicked around a couple of months ago, because it is a new gun. I did speak with most of the trades people you mentioned to me, and I think they would be good folks for the Lefever.

Have you considered posting a list of suggested trades people to use on this project?

I gather you will be available for engraving the Lefever?

Will you post here when you are ready to take deposits?

One concern for us folks on the downhill side of our " sporting" lives:

Once all the bugs have been worked out, what is the "ballpark" optimistic delivery time for these new age Lefevers?

Is this truly going to be a "custom" production enterprise?
Custom guns = low volume/ few personnel.

How many receivers/forends /trigger assemblys, can Mr. Earle reliably produce week in and week out? What happens if he catches the flu? Breaks an arm? Has an accident? Will others take over for him during his absence?

Is the barrel source reliable- is there a price break between 50 set/100 sets/ 1000 sets?

One thing that would really sour me on the project is to find out that due to "unanticipated" delays ( i.e. ICD & RBLs) that I may not receive the "promised" finished parts for a llllooooonnngggg time- Now say me and 500 fellas are looking to get these things custom stocked after receiving the metalwork- Only so many custom stockers around- 500 guns is a good number. Let's see, I think I have averaged a two year wait for every gun I've had stocked. Now we have engraving ( it's not like sending it out with a note : I'll need the standard Purdey house style with initials and oh yes - I'll need it back by the end of next week) like was done in merry old England at the turn of the century. Add final finishing/ colors/ nitre/ slow rust bluing/ etc. - what started as an optimistic revival of a classic has now bogged down to a 4 year wait.... I know - patience is a virtue. I plunked down the $$ with CSMC as I knew that Tony could produce guns and SHOULD have the chops to manufacture the product in a timely/ quality fashion- but I have a short attention span and my sense of anticipation is fading........
Ordering custom guns is kinda like going out for a fancy dinner- The hunger and imagined endproduct are always sure to excite- but with slow service/ and long periods between courses, blood sugar levels increase and suppress ones's appetite. After receiving many well intentioned but non ending supply of excuses for delays and apologies, I just want to pay the check and leave....... I want to know that when someone tells me that my purchase will be delivered on a date, that after a reasonable " unanticipated delay" period ( to me on a CNC limited production manufactured item- that would be ~ one month)and the item is not in my hands- My $$ are returned in full with interest ( current passbook savings rate at very least).

I'm gettin too old to order a spruce goose.

Ok - I'll crawl down from my soapbox now...........

- best regards,
JBP