doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is this bbl marking familiar?

The 'Crown/D' marking.
Seems like I've seen it before on SxS, (maybe Belgian sourced bbl's (?),,

Anyway it's on a Marlin 43 Trap pump shotgun. Thought it was interesting.

That is the mark of Delcour-Dupont
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20d/a%20delcour%20dupont%20gb.htm

Pete

Most interesting. Can you tell what the worn initials might have been? What is the stamped tube steel type?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The other mark is a poorly stamped 'F' indicating Full Choke.
Those are the only markings on the bottom of the tube.
The 'F' is just barely visible when the gun is assembled,,the Crown/D is not,,all due to the magazine tube.

Normal roll marked bbl address on the left side of the bbl and large '12GA' marking.
Nothing in there to indicate steel type.
It's not a composition type bbl (twist,damascus,ect). Solid steel (fluid?)type instead.
No additional choke marking in that side marking.

I suspected the mark indicated a foreign source for the pump gun tube, but figured I'd ask here to make sure.

The Model was made in the 1920's and was surprised at the 'foreign' looking mark at first.

A Meriden Pump Shotgun I have is clearly marked 'Fluid Steel Krupp Essen' on the top of the bbl.
AFAIK those Meridens were made in 1917 or '18.
I wouldn't have figured Krupp would have been obliging to us at that particular time for bbl steel. I'm sure there's an answer and probably just to do with aquisition and later production timing.

Maybe all not so surprising. If we (USA) sourced SxS bbls into the 20th century,, why not repeater bbls as well..

Thank you both for the information & interest in the marking..

Lots of U.S. makers used Canons Delcour fluid steel tubes, including Hunter Arms ("Crown Steel"), Fox, Meriden/Sears, Baker ("Homotensile Steel"), Ithaca NID ("Best Fluid Steel") and Lefever Nitro Special & A-grades

Some Browning patent Fabrique-Nationale-Herstal very early versions of the A5 shipped to the U.S. between 1903 and 1909 are marked Cockerill Steel.

Delcour-DuPont survived WWI relatively intact. They were the last of the large production houses to produce damascus barrels, circa 1939.

From about 1905 to 1919 most fluid steel coming out of Belgium, especially FN, was produced by Siemens-Martin, this was during a period of German control and acquisition of Belgian arms manufacturing. Gaier refers to this period as "the German School." In "Ars Mechanica" there is a picture of the FN board room, with German officers in uniform seated at the table.

Damascus imports from Belgium basically stopped during WWI. Baker as much as says so. Yet we see a number of American makers still able to fulfill orders. My best guess is that they had stored a large quantity of tubes before the war or a jobber had. I believe this would apply to Krupp as well.

Pete

The fluid steel barrels on Marlin's Grades B and C were marked 'Special Smokeless Steel'. These barrels were rated at a much higher PSI over those on the Grade A, which did not have the 'S.S.S.' marking. I found this information in my 1907 catalog. How is your Model 43 marked?

No steel grade marking on the Model 43 pump gun at all.
Just the stamp(s) in the picture above.

I was aware of the Special Smokeless Steel and the For B/P Only marking on the rifles.

I haven't noticed those markings on Marlin pumpguns,,but then they have been few in my list of aquisitions over the years.
Only the second '43 I've had. A couple of the hammer pumps have come and gone.

I don't mind shooting the hammerless Marlins like this one. They are a somewhat fragile design, but I can deal with that.
The hammer pumps are just an unsafe design with that poorly designed bolt lock arm underneath. I won't shoot those.

This one's getting a face lift & upgrade of sorts.
Redone wood, some engraving, new pad to replace the plywood spacer and Pacmayr additions it had.

Nice shooter. Full choke makes for a nice skeet gun.
I keep the loads down in psi for all my elder shooters.

Poster: PeteM
Subject: Re: Is this bbl marking familiar?

Delcour-DuPont survived WWI relatively intact. They were the last of the large production houses to produce damascus barrels, circa 1939.

From about 1905 to 1919 most fluid steel coming out of Belgium, especially FN, was produced by Siemens-Martin,


Hi PeteM,

I don't want to be a stickler, but I seem to remember (from long ago days when I worked in the steel industry in Germany)
that Siemens-Martin is a specific process of making steel, used by a number of steel makers (others are the Thomas and Bessemer processes).
Don't take this the wrong way; just a bit of information I can add.

Best regards from England
G�nter

Acier Siemens Martele-(Siemens Hammered Steel)

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=200697&page=2

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse