doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "New manufactured" Lefever project

Regarding Jim's comment about 16's fading out after a short time, most of the 16 offerings I can think of in recent memory have been clubs (e.g., 870 on a 12 frame, Baikals/Spartans, etc.), with the exception of the Citori 16 built on a scaled frame. Browning has no problem selling those. Browning is also getting lots of advance orders for its BPS 16ga due out this summer. Why? It's built on a 20 frame and it's affordable. The Merkel 1620, another lightweight scaled frame 16, also sells well. There is however, no quality, American-made, scaled frame lightweight 16 sxs on the market right now that I can think of, except for Tony's Foxes, which are Very expensive. Give people a reason to buy a 16, and they will. Discourage them from it, or deliver an inferior product, and they won't.

Given the success of the above examples, and if the price is right, I can't think of a good reason why a 16/20 combo wouldn't do well. Especially one with the cachet of the Lefever name.

Would I still be interested in one if 16/20 ga. is what's ultimately offered, yes. Would I prefer a light 12, also yes. I know there are some strong 16 ga. proponents but for anyone planning on resale ever I'd think 20 or 12 would be better bets. Really, I'd think it would make the amount of initial order higher too - I know this won't be a high production gun but I can't see single digits being economically feasable.
I'd really think going to 26" barrels would be a bad idea - if only one length will be ordered I'd suggest 28", and if two 28" and 30".

I have no idea on how any this would move the cost and availability of barrels.

I love it-"punk" wood for a "punk" gunamker!!! HOW APPROPRIATE!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Why would you consider a 28 a "downgrade"? Did Dan Lefever or those that built his gun consider them inferior? Or did 28s simply not sell well at that time with the available ammunition. The history of best American gumaking was far from static. If he hadn't died in 1906 do you think he would have gone on making exactly the same guns in exactly the same gauges forever?

P.S. If I do get one of these proposed guns I'll be having a rendering of my favorite Vizsla engraved on it. Uncle Dan never did that, surely he never saw a Vizsla in his lifetime, but I don't think he'd mind.

Marklart,
I think the cost of this project gun will get you up near the cost of a CSM Fox. CSM lists the base CE Fox for $13.5k . I'd guess this project would be $10k for a similarly engraved/stocked gun if it were all farmed out. Back to what others have said, if anyone is looking to build a $15k valued gun for $3-5k, they are mistaken.

Since the XX frame can certainly go to 16 gauge, and possibly to 12, wouldn't it be a bit large for 28?

Chuck, could you provide a breakdown of how you come to $10K?

Ken,

If I've grasped the project so far, you have in mind offering an optimus quality XX action and set of 20 gauge barrels in the white.

You are considering an option for an addition pair of 16 gauge barrels.

Some are interested in a set of 20 gauge chokerifled (Paradox) barrels.

Others would have an extra set of barrels be in 12 gauge.

Some have argued for your supplying a somewhat inlet blank. But, of what quality of wood and do you want to get into hassles over which side of the wood was not up to snuff and why isn't the grain in the wrist straight enough and I want straight rather than pistol grip or Prince of Wales.

I'd stick with action and barrels. Let the barrel maker price extra sets with the extra set price a function of numbers ordered. I imagine you will get a quote that, say, 1-25 would cost so much each; more than 25 to 50 would be so much each, etc. At a certain period of time and with deposits in hand you can, with more confidence let us know what the exact cost of an extra set would be. I can see some wanting two pair of 20 gauge barrels with different chokes, for example; or even two sets of 12 gauge barrels on the same logic (assuming the XX geometry permits fitting 12 gauge barrels).

Might be some better ideas out there...

Best, Tim

Steven,
I guestimated $2.5k for the action, $1k for the barrels, $500 worth of fitting and finishing the barrels and action, $3k for stockwork/checkering, $1k for wood, $2k for engraving. That's $10k. Granted, some can get the work done cheaper and many have a stockblank already, but $2500 for the action and $1000 for barrels is optimistic I think. Some will do their own stockwork and barrel fitting, but I was just tossing out guestimates. I don't think that'll be too far off one way or the other by more than a couple grand if the work is farmed and my estimate of the barrels and action aren't too far off. Actually, $2500 seems a bit low for the action and I think barrels will be closer to $1.5-2k fitted and finishing/casehardening/blueing could run a bit more.

Anyone going into this project that will farm out everything ought to be prepared for something like $10-15k, depending lots of variables.

I think the stock idea was simply to have a reputable duplicator make a very accurate pattern that could be used for the head of the stock, so that anyone who wished could simply provide their wood and their stock fit numbers, and a couple months later they could get back a relatively finished semi-inlet to fit them--for far less money or work than they'd be into it if they had to either inlet themselves from scratch (sounds like a very expensive/complicated job) or pay someone else to do the same.

Personally, I like this idea. I don't doubt that the total cost of the gun will be approaching that of the "same thing" from elsewhere (i.e. csmc fox, etc), but the fact that 1) I can act as my own general contractor, and 2) I can do the project in stages and do some of the less intensive parts myself (finishing the stock for instance, maybe blueing, etc) IF I choose to, mean that it has extra appeal by offering up both flexibility in timeframe and a potentially significant $ savings.

Besides, even if the total cost is the same it's much easier to justify it to my wife in smaller bites.