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If only they could talk.


David


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As noted, the Brits made guns that can be compared directly to US guns in terms of intended function - wildfowlers and gamekeeper guns being the most obvious examples. I would be interested to hear a gunsmith compare the form, fit and functionality of a provincially made, A&D boxlock or a Bland wildfowl gun against a contemporaneous Parker PH or VH.

Might make for an interesting DGJ article?

A quick review of GI shows high-end Parkers with selling prices ($30-50k) comparable to what a vintage Purdey or H&H might get. There may be some vintage American collector-gun premium skewing that a bit, but it suggests the perceived quality (at least from a collector perspective) between the best Parkers and a Brit "best" is not hugely different.


Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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American guns aren't valued like Brit guns so all numbers are skewed.

American guns have value because of originality and rarity. Brit guns have value because of current replacement cost and restored condition. (A general oversimplification)

A fully restored to as-new westley Richards boxlock may fetch $6000-$7000. A fully restored Parker VH may fetch $1700. I know, I've had and sold both. Both are of the same level of engraving and overall quality. (I much prefer the westley)

It all goes back to the differences in how American guns are valued.

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Even though we think very highly of them here, American shotguns don't do that well in the international market. There is no real market for them outside of our borders. Our rifles and handguns are a different matter.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 04/16/13 12:41 PM.
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That’s what I thought concerning the international market. But that is all that matters, who wants to buy it and at what price. In a strictly American auction the Parker will command a high price but if you take that same gun to an international auction at what price would it sell for? Probably a fraction at what it sells for over here if it does sell.

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Well, FWIW, the American market is the biggest firearm market in the world, simply because we can still freely own and use these devices. Most countries severely limit that option, and accordingly, their markets are comparatively small. If the American gun-owning public still thinks that a highly-adorned and (more importantly) "factory-original", American-made, English boxlock-clone is the do-all, end-all, then it is. At least for a little while longer.

Last edited by Lloyd3; 04/16/13 02:29 PM.
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I agree. With an estimated 300 million guns the American market probably dwarfs all others combined. And with that size of market what else matters.


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Originally Posted By: Lloyd3
If the American gun-owning public still thinks that a highly-adorned and (more importantly) "factory-original", American-made, English boxlock-clone is the do-all, end-all, then it is. At least for a little while longer.


Lloyd, fact is the A&D action so highly touted in England was quickly rejected by American makers who opted for a stronger gun. Among other points, the hinge pin was moved forward to give much better leverage and lowered the angle of stress on the action. And then to further strengthen the gun most American designs placed the locking bolt as far away from the hinge pin as possible. Both were major improvements on the original. (I know, the A&D action was protected by patent for quite a while but that just led to worthy innovations which has always been the hallmark of our citizens).

For what it's worth, about half my stable is American, mostly Parkers and Lefevers and the other half is English or Scottish. I do like them all and I've had decades to compare them side by side. Frankly, I don't think it's possible to compare the two country's products without the distortion of bias (mine included) but I do take umbrage with someone who flatly labels our American production "inferior". That was the height of audacity.


If we feed our faith our fears will starve, if we feed our fears our faith will starve.
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Quote:
With an estimated 300 million guns the American market probably dwarfs all others combined.


The more interesting and relevant question is how many more vintage doublegun trade in the US each year compared to the UK? Not an easy statistic to track I would guess.


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Mr. Wood: We love what we love for our own reasons. I can find something to like in just about any decently executed version of a sporting firearm that I can lay my hands on. And, I think you're absolutely right about bias, there is no escaping it. Your stable sounds lovely and you obviously use and enjoy them. Mr. Hadoke has his bias too, and you have every right to take umbrage at it. I grew up with the American stuff and love it still, almost all of it. But, if I had to pick a favorite, I would have to say that it was a C Grade Lefever 16 (with B grade engraving) that I got to handle a few years ago.

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