doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Considering a sidelock gun

Well, if you have to have a sidelock and your upper limit is $6,000 I do admit you have chosen a sticky pond from which to get out unscathed. You WILL struggle to find a decent English one at that price.

My advice would be save a bit more and get something good rather than spend what you have on something second rate.

BTW Run with the Fox - my father was born a citizen of the Irish Republic and his father in Kilkea Castle- and his mother, Lady Alice FitzGerald would be turning in her grave at the thought of her descendents being called Limeys by the American born offspring of some exiled bog trotter.

[quote=Small Bore]Well, if you have to have a sidelock and your upper limit is $6,000 I do admit you have chosen a sticky pond from which to get out unscathed. You WILL struggle to find a decent English one at price.

That seems to be the case.

Part of the problem is that you are looking at two different things that only have appearance in common. The British sidelocks you are looking at has four to six decades plus more use than the Spanish sidelock. Normal wear and tear will make the pool of desirable British candidates much smaller to buy from. Then you are looking a a much later Spanish made gun with little or no major long term use. Apples to oranges instead of comparable items. And it is the equivalent of a reproduction to a classic gun comparison.

It would be like trying to find a Parker 28 ga. and comparing an original Parker to the later Japanese made Parker 28's. Both the same, but vastly different. Find a high condition original Parker 28 and you expect to pay a a lot more for it than the later reproductions. Has to be the same with the British gun as well.

Dig is right if you are looking for the most gun for your buck think box lock ejector for the money you are talking about. They are still some great values in them for the money. Otherwise just buy your Spanish gun and enjoy. It comes cheaper for a reason and the resale value, which you are judging it by reflects the lower price. The Spanish gun will handle your shooting needs as described with a wider range of ammo.

I shoot these old doubles because I like a link to the past and the history they bring to mind. It if vastly more efficient to buy a camo auto, screw in a choke tube, load three and go bang, bang, bang. I rather spend a ridiculous amount of time thinking about which fixed choke two shot option to use for a shooting opportunity. Enjoy the ride and half the fun of buying a new gun is looking at all the different options out there. Who knows one of them might just talk to you. More than one gun I own was bought while I was looking for something else. Half the fun as I said.

As KY Jon said above: "Enjoy the ride and half the fun of buying a new gun is looking at all the different options out there. Who knows one of them might just talk to you. More than one gun I own was bought while I was looking for something else. Half the fun as I said."

Many years ago I was just browsing in a good gun shop and picked up a Pedro Arrizabalaga and mounted it. I was so astounded at the handling of that gun that I bought it on the spot, writing a check for the asking price. That gun had been made by PA for J Roberts of London and I have never been sorry I bought it. The handling and feel is truly remarkable and the fit and finish is excellent.

Since then I've had as many as seven Spanish shotguns; now I'm down to five where I most likely will stay. The worst handling felt like a 21 but cost me only about 600 bucks whereas the best are the PA and an Aya.

The legend about soft Spanish steel these days appears to nothing more than a legend - apparently decades ago some Spanish guns were made to a very low price point and imported. By and large these guns no longer exist (if they ever did) and newer Spanish guns are very high quality.

If you have your heart set on an English gun save up for a sound one. If you will be satisfied with a shotgun that has excellent handling qualities and is mechanically and aesthetically sound then a Spanish gun might satisfy you.

Resale value? Just a personal observation - My guns are bought with discretionary money and they are nothing more than nice toys and I don't care what my toys sell for after I'm done playing with them. But that's just a personal view - judging from many posters' comments resale value can be a real issue.

Of course, if it not being an English gun would annoy you each time you use it, then by all means don't buy a Spaniard!

But otherwise they're worth shouldering and, if possible, shooting.

muchtrucha,
Gough thomas spoke very highly of his aya.He did have vast knowledge and experience of side by side shotguns.his opinions are held with regard by most in the gun empire.
cheers
mr w martin

I totally agree. The Belgian sidelocks are usually well built and under-priced. Without being as rough as Dig, I am very unimpressed with the quality of the Spanish ones. It seems that their lower cost is funded by a much higher speed of execution (i.e lower attention to details), as well as easier steels to work with (i.e. softer).
A good friend master gunsmith of mine in Belgium complains that the top Belgian firms spend all the effort time and money on the innards, and there is not much left for the outside, while the Italians do the reverse. (Of course, he is biased.)
Francotte and Lebeau are usually great, but there are many other great ones out there such as Lajot, Wilmart and Thonon. There are really too many to name them all. Usually those can be obtained well within your budget.
I would strongly advise that a competent gunsmith be hired to inspect anything you have in mind. The one I used has saved me a lot of frustration.
Best regards,
WC-

Gough Thomas Garwood was paid to advertise AYAs but his gun of choice was an Atkin self opener.

Try getting the disc set strikers out of an AYA - I find they have invariably been hammer welded into the action face because the steel is soft.

I will admit the AYA n02 shoots nicely for the price - it is just that looking at it makes me feel ill.

hello,
thomas said in his later years he used his aya almost exclusively, unless of course he was lying.
there are very few british sidelocks in the price bracket of an aya no 2 that will provide as many more years trouble free shooting.i think the aya no 2 is a good looking gun although it may not have the "feel" of british.
a 2nd hand aya no 4 for a few hundred or a webley 700 for a few thou, only one winner in the value stakes.
i am a british fan but not blinkered or bigoted enough to claim exclusiveness in all things re gun quality,appearance,value etc.
cheers
mr w martin

Speaking as an owner both of an Atkin spring opener and two AyAs - of course the Atkin is a finer gun (in fact one of the finest guns available in my view), but the AyAs are very good value for money. The Atkin would have (if they were the same age) a price tag perhaps equivalent to 10 AyA No. 2 guns.

AyA discs ? No problem ,had as much getting discs out of Webley's and Purdey's .
As to old Gough Thomas ,well lets just say he was'nt the only one to profit from his "reputation".