doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 17 Remington?

I just read that a Charles "Sparrow" Young was the designer for the Model 200. Browning's asthetic reputation might be salvaged yet.

There is one for sale as we speak, for the trivial sum of $1,250 (plus $50 shipping) on Gunsinternational. I believe I'll have to pass on that one.

Lloyd, Is your Model 17 working?

Mr Browning wasn't involved in the 200. Trying to by-pass his patents was more likely the problem.
The TD system is certainly different. The knurled ring is an obvious path to the TD, but getting at it is the problem. The Sparrow solved this by supplying a spanner wrench with each shotgun.
The wrench is kept in the end of the magazine tube and looks like a simple end cap when in storage.

In use, the wrench is used to turn the lock ring 1/3 (one third)turn to unlock the bbl/forend assembly from the frame. The bbl assembly then pulls straight forward & off the frame.

Without the wrench, many of these guns have seen the use of a punch of some sort in the spanner groove(s) to get them apart. Most owners don't know that the wrench is even there in the end of the magazine tube. Some spanners are found with the tip broken off from a bit too much pressure on them.





I have more fun with things like this, a Meriden pump, Marlin hammerless pumps, the early Remingtons ect than the common Winchester M12s. I really can't even remember ever owning a M12.
Plenty of 97s though.

Mr. Snyder: I believe it is, but I haven't had a chance to function check it yet. I discussed the matter with it's last user and he's convinced he "short-shucked" it , as you surmised.

Kutter: How cool is that? The 200 comes with it's own take-down wrench! With fine doubleguns costing what they do, these little pumpguns are a pleasant distraction. I don't shoot them worth a hoot, but many do and they are fun to learn about. I know I read somewhere that this wasn't a Browning design, but it sure looks like it borrowed heavily from the Stevens 520. Perhaps Mr. Young just did the takedown work?

Kutter,

That is really cool! I love odd guns and unusual pump guns even more!

Amazing it was chambered for the 3" shell.

This was the cleanest 17 I ever saw in my life. In hind sight I was not very smart to leave it on the rack. :-(

I had the oddest take-down 16-gauge hammer pumpgun walk into the shop about a year ago. The fellow carrying it was, by coincidence, an old co-worker of mine who I hadn't seen in years. It had been his great grandfather's gun and he was looking to sell it in preparation for a move to a less gun-friendly place (California?). I believe it was marked as being made by Crescent Arms and I hadn't ever seen anything like it. So, like an idiot, I told him it wasn't worth much and didn't even offer to take it off of his hands. I later came to find out it was made by Marlin. It was very light and seemed to be in very good condition. Live and learn. I couldn't even track him down to tell him what I had learned later.

The J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. No. 200 only appears in two of their catalogs, the second printin of General Catalog No. 53 (the one with out the 1911 date on the cover) and General Catalog No. 54 --







During 1916, the factories of J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. were taken over by New England Westinghouse and they renamed the company J. Stevens Arms Co. The No. 200 is still on their 1917 price list at $25., but is gone from their 1919 catalog.

In that time frame, the "standard" U.S. 20-gauge shell was put up in a 2 1/2 inch paper case and carried a maximum load of 2 1/4 drams of bulk smokeless powder, or 18 grains of dense smokeless powder such as Infallible or Ballistite, pushing 7/8 ounce of shot. In a 2 3/4 inch or longer paper shell one could get 2 1/2 drams of bulk smokeless powder, or 20-grains of dense smokeless powders such as Ballistite or Infallible, pushing that 7/8 ounce of shot a bit faster. The longer 2 7/8 inch and 3-inch 20-gauge shells carried the same load, but with more/better wadding which many serious Pigeon shooters thought significant in their 12-gauge Pigeon guns and this carried over to some "sports" using 16- and 20-gauge guns.

I'm wondering if Stevens didn't make a couple different versions of the 200.
I've owned 3 of these, 2 of which I still have.
I've often read of the 'two' swinging plates or blades inside the mechanism. One used as a cartridge guide, the other a simple covering for the blank space in the port behind the bolt.
The component parts list shown (other than being a reversed image) shows the two parts #83 & #19.
But none of the 3 Model 200s I've had work that way. They only have one pivoting blade doing both jobs. It looks very close to part #83 in shape but with obvious differences.
Mine don't have the inertia weight (hang fire safety) shown in the parts diagram either. An early Stevens 520 edition had one but didn't last long.

The receivers of mine have/had far fewer holes in the side also!,,though there's plenty enough.
There's a few extra parts on the list and in the drawing because of the differences that I don't have in the box-o-parts from a complete takedown.

Maybe the drawings are just that and the actual production guns ended up being different. Mine all # in the 16K range FWIW.


As far as the 'Cresent' mfg pump,,I don't know of any,,not that they could be around.
But Marlin used to market their pump shotguns under the name of 'National Firearms Company'.
Their multitude of hammerless models used a swinging cover/blade like the Stevens 200 to close off the rear of the ejection port opening.
Marlin seemed to assign a new model number for each gauge even though the guns were the same as the 12ga version (except for frame size).

A Meriden Mfg pump gun has a reference to a Savage Arms patent on it.
Confusing bunch,, but my Marlin 43T is a favorite shooter.

Thanks for posting Stevens pics and especially the parts breakdown on the Stevens. I shall save that. Now I know what they're really called.