doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dealing With Old Screws

I need to find the remaining proof marks on my Merkel Model 210E combo gun. Need to look under the forearm wood slats that are not designed to be removed, attached via 3 screws on each side. The screws are ornate, and their grooves are very shallow. I have gingerly tried to remove a couple of them with no luck. Afraid of scarring them with a screwdriver. Anybody have any suggestions for dealing with these old screws to get them unscrewed? The gun dates to 3/1929. See photos below. Thanks in advance for any assistance some of you more experienced double gunners can offer.

TexasJack

use a mill or a drill press to keep downward pressure on a well fitting screw driver bit and you should be able to turn them right out.

The geniuses here will give you the low-down.

On how to ruin them forever.

Or... you could take it to Briley for a complete destruction.

Don't believe there is any proof stamp under the wood....!
Be careful with the screws, they are 84 years old and look nice - would go for a (good) gunmaker.

Gunwolf

Hi Texas.

To remove those screws your self without the screw driver caming out of such fine slots and ruining the look of the screws you must first find your self a set of armourers �turn screws� (screw drivers) because be business end of them is hollow ground and will fit the screw head perfectly. Ordinary screw drivers that are on sale in local shops will not do at all, go to a gun smith and have him take them out because if he makes a hash of it he will of course replace the ones he may damage.

I also agree that there will be no marks under the upper wood.
Mike

Texasjack,
As the others said, there are no proofmarks under the panels. If you still feel the need to remove them, you will have to make a screwdriver to fit the screws.You will not be able to buy one.German gunsmiths made their own tools as part of their training.It will be a little "tricky", if the blade is too hard, it may break;if too soft it may twist off.The drillpress trick mentioned above is very good. Also, try tightening them a little first, to break any rust loose. Be careful and if they still don't move, apply a little penetrating oil(too much is not good for the wood,but Ballistol is not bad). Don't be in too much of a hurry,if it takes a week or more, thats better than having to have a new screw made. When they were installed, they were likely "clocked", so they need to go back into the same place.When you get the first one out, look at the end.It will likely be marked,and all the screws on that side will have the same mark.If it is not marked, the ones on the other side should be.The mark will usually be a line filed on the end.In cases where a third is needed (some in a drilling), an "X" is filed into the end.Then it will be just a matter of keeping straight, whish is from the front and which is from the rear.When you put them back in, if the don't line up, try another hole. good luck.
Mike

If there is no information under the upper wood I have no reason to remove the wood and gladly will stop trying. I had not noticed the screws line up perfectly. Those Germans are sticklers for detail, now aren't they! (It's a good thing they ran out of petrol in Russia in 42/43. Otherwise they could have finished off the East quickly and concentrated their forces in the West, and we might all be speaking German now.....;-)

.....and of course reading the german proof law of 1892 in it's original...! :-))

Gunwolf

Just a note. Those slots are cut with a little saw. So, the sides are parallel. Look at your favorite screwdriver in your kitchen drawer, and see why they bodge up screw slots.