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Bill, when you look down the bores of the barrels you can see concentric rings. This is true with rifle barrels as well as shotgun barrels. If the barrel is not perfectly straight the rings will not be concentric. Rings in a bent barrel look closer together on the "inside of the bend" and farther apart on the "outside of the bend". Many people don't know how to look for this, but it is easy to see once you know. I cannot speak for anybody else's, but none of my doubles exhibit the non-concentric rings that would indicate a non-straight barrel. It would take pretty severe bends to get rid of the difference in the width of the centerlines from the breech to the muzzle. What you are saying is that the barrels converge for a ways and then bend and are parallel to each other the rest of the way to the muzzles, I think. A bend like that could be very easily seen by looking at the rings, IMO.

I've got a set of Fox barrels in my shop right now from which I removed the ribs. It is easy to see, just by looking at the outsides of the barrels, between the ribs, that they are not bent to become parallel.

All my best, SRH


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Well I can assure you of one thing I have never owned or even seen a double in which the bbls were bent to the extent they would become parallel at the muzzles. Hey man i could see that at a glance & I "AIN'T" ever seen it. After seeing the specs in the L C Smith plans & specs book I checked seeral of my Lefevers & they measured extremely close to those Smith specs & no they WERE NOT BENT at the muzzles. I measured their OD's & the width across them at increments & they increased in width at about that .011" per inch just as the Smith specs were stated.
The old timers are said to have straightened bbls by looking through the bores at a line such as a in a window between the panes. It doesn't take a lot of practice to be be able to do this with good accuracy. I have so looked down several bbls * have never looked at one with a rainbow shape or on which the muzzle ends of them had a distinct curve.
That bit about the muzzles being parallel is just FLAT OUT WRONG, please nobody believe that Crap.
the barrels move from time of ignition to the shot leaving the muzzle, if they didn't they would all cross fire by 15"-16" at 40 yds.


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Chuck I did misunderstand the point you were making.

But how do you know the barrel axis is pointed exactly at the POI at the instant the shot leaves the muzzle. If firing the right barrel the shot has a component of velocity to the right and that right velocity continues all the way to the forty yard target. You would have to know the velocity to the right to backtrack to where the axis of the barrel is when the shot comes out the end. I don't think we know that velocity.

Another way of putting my argument is that if you were looking down on the shooter that barrel starts rotating to the right when the shot starts down the barrel. So it has a large velocity parallel to the original position of the rib axis of the right barrel and a small velocity perpendicular in the horizaontal plane to the rib axis of the right barrel.

I don't think the axis of the right barrel is lined up with the POI at the time the shot exits the barrel. I think it is pointed to the left of the POI at the instant of shot exit.




Best,

Mike

Please see edit in red


Last edited by AmarilloMike; 05/09/13 09:12 PM.


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NOW I understand why I shot so poorly at skeet today! It WAS the guns fault! Reason enough to search for another shotgun.....


When an old man dies a library burns to the ground. (Old African proverb)
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This is a very interesting thread with lots of great info and I wish I could have read it a year ago before buying the YILDIZ. One thing that I found from it that was very consistent - the heavier the load, the more wall-eyed it shot. As the load increased, the right barrel shot further right and the left barrel shot further left.

The eccentric chokes corrected it somewhat - wouldn't they actually be creating barrel convergence in a sense?

And by the way, the 1.75 oz turkey load at 1100 fps does not have heavy recoil at all. Its not in the same league as a Win Supreme 3.5" 12 gauge load. And you usually shoot no more than one per day, and your heart is racing when you do.:)

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Whew, glad I don't have to replace my straight bore cleaning devices with bent ones. smile

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Mike
It sure took you a long time to find that animated emoticon. But you did find it. So for that I have to give you credit. Good job.

But this other 'shot slinging' stuff...you gotta quantify it to make it plausible. Personally I think its negligible.

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I don't have to quantify to make it plausible. And to get the value of that small rightward velocity we would have to do a high speed camera experiment. We could then calculate barrel axis position relative to POI at the time the shot exits the barrel. And I don't think it is anywhere near your number and that it is much closer to mine.

Thanks for the Emoticon!

We have given my shooting student Joe Wood another excuse for missing.

Last edited by AmarilloMike; 05/10/13 07:41 AM.


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I'll bring the popcorn.

Joe said you were chasing your dogs again. Win anything?

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