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Forums10
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Most Online1,258 Mar 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
No, nothing.
But we had a good time and the dogs did a good job.
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
Mike ,I respectfully suggest that you refer to page 32 Vol;1 The Modern Shotgun by Burrard .The author explains that;"The purpose of converging barrels is to correct for the effect of barrel throw to the left or left or right of the centre of gravity of the gun that occurs at the time of discharge."
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
Hi Roy.
I certainly agree with Burrard. Chuck and I were having a discussion about the angle of the barrel relative to the POI the instant the shot came out of the muzzle. He thinks it is pointed right at the POI. I don't.
Best,
Mike
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
I would tend to agree with Chuck on this one. I do not believe the "Twisting" of the gun gives the shot any significant amount of a side vector to its velocity, any more than Swinging on the Bird gives a significant effect on the required lead.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
Not to deflect from the discussion . . . but if we have to correct for "barrel throw" (muzzle flip?) to the R or L on a sxs, does that not mean we'd have to correct for the same phenomenon--only up or down--on an OU???
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
I like to refer to this as the "sling-shot" theory. And Larry, a sxs has a verticle component of "sling-shot" as well. Virtually every handheld gun moves before the projectile (s) leave the barrel. Its dramatic in handguns. There are probably hundreds of youtube slow-mo videos of handguns being fired.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
Miller you and Chuck are both certainly advocating that the twisting of the gun is enough that it rotates the axis of the barrel from its initial convergence point to the POI axis in the short time it takes the shot to move from the breech to the muzzle. Using Chuck's 1-1/2" and subracting my 0.8" and dividing by two it is about .35" of displacement in the few thousandths of a second it takes the shot to go from breech to muzzle. And the rate of rotation is much higher at the time of shot exit than at the beginning (0).
My theory is the more likely because the rotation of the barrels in those few milliseconds would be less than the .35" you and Chuck are arguing for.
Of course it wouldn't take a very large side vector to make up a convergence (rate?) of .011".
I am glad to be here.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71 |
Gents all this theorising is very good but how about some real tests ? Get one of the magazines to set up some experiments and put this thing to bed once and for all.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
The left barrel shot 10" to the left at 40 yards, and the right barrel shot 7" to the right. It was only then that I started to get serious learning about barrel regulation of a sxs. I found that its impossible to get a sxs that will shoot all loads with both barrels to the same POI. That's probably true for cheaply made production guns. All the W&C Scotts I've owned all shot to point of impact with any load or shot size I've shot through them (with the exception of Federal flight control wads). I have been thinking for some time that the perfect turkey gun would be a sxs 20 gauge shooting the heavy tungsten shot. With one open barrel for close shots, and one tight barrel for longer shots, every possible shot should be covered. Upland choking in a turkey gun is stupid nonsense started by some outdoor writer that didn't know his azz from a hole in the ground. The perfect SxS turkey gun (which I just happen to own) should be 12 ga. and equally tightly choked in each barrel....
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
As GT Garwood defines it muzzle-flip is a phenomenon that causes a particular gun to shoot lower than other guns with similar rib to barrel axis angles. Recoil causes a gun to shoot higher if the buttstock is lower than the axis of the barrel(s). I have seen some combat rifles set up so the barrel axis goes through that of the buttstock. I assume this is to eliminate muzzle rise during automatic fire.
Garwood said muzzle-flip usually occurred in longer barreled SxS small bores.
Edit in red
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