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Forums10
Topics38,374
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Most Online1,131 Jan 21st, 2024
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64 |
Coosa, how come all your dead turkeys have a red and white bulls-eye on them. I've never shot one with that feature...Geo Just a little advertising for the call I used to call them in - a Fatal Attraxion made by Stony Brock.
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 441
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 441 |
Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I am aware of several hunters using tungsten in a .410, and they are as effective as 3.5" 12 gauge guns shooting lead.
Stupid comments like that should not be allowed on the internet. Steve,you've just met the anti-tungsten shot turkey meister contigency of the forum, rumored to be president of the Earth is Flat Society. Without a doubt, tungsten 9s out of a 20 gauge are as effective as any load of lead #4's shot out of an SBE. To argue otherwise is not stupid, just not based on reality or fact. Not stupid, just militantly ignorant. If stupid is allowed on the net, it is only fair that militantly ignorant is allowed. Stupidity is incurable; militant ignorance takes a lot of time and might as well be considered incurable, but there's always hope. I won't go as far as saying tungsten makes a .410 as effective a turkey gun as lead in an SBE, but I don't consider your remark stupid. Tungsten 9s make a .410 a legit 40 yard gun, but hands down, a 20 with TSS9s is another story as we both know. jOe, hope your season was a good one. One day you will come under Pixie Dust's spell. It already has your attention. Gil
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64 |
Gil - I've seen your .410 patterns, and some Hal has shot too. They have way over 100 hits at 40 in the 10" circle.
The SBE in the pic in my other thread with a Pure Gold choke will consistently give me 70 something hits at 40 with #4 lead. With a Kicks choke, it would go 110-115.
I believe your gun will beat those numbers very consistently.
My 20 with tungsten will blow away any 12 gauge lead load to the point that it is no contest and wouldn't even be a fair comparison.
Good hunting to all!
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 441
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,074 Likes: 441 |
Gil - I've seen your .410 patterns, and some Hal has shot too. They have way over 100 hits at 40 in the 10" circle.
The SBE in the pic in my other thread with a Pure Gold choke will consistently give me 70 something hits at 40 with #4 lead. With a Kicks choke, it would go 110-115.
I believe your gun will beat those numbers very consistently.
My 20 with tungsten will blow away any 12 gauge lead load to the point that it is no contest and wouldn't even be a fair comparison.
Ah, the veil of ignorance has been lifted from my eyes! I have had an SBE since 1998 and it has had a lead free diet. Nothing but HTL has left its muzzle. And good hunting, to you as well. Gil
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64 |
Gil, I took time to look at some more .410 patterns, and maybe I need to qualify my statement. I have never shot a .410 load of tungsten, so going by what you see on the internet can lead to misconceptions. Hal had posted the pics in this thread on another board I frequent: http://www.gobblernation.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=5236Now those patterns will beat any 12 gauge using #4 shot, and since they penetrate about the same, #4 lead is the fair comparison to #9 ts. However, I see that not all .410s are getting those numbers, so maybe my original statement should have been something along the lines of, "some guys are shooting .410 patterns that beat any #4 lead pattern from a 3.5" 12 gauge." Qualifying it like that would still be called stupid by Homeless Joe, but maybe you could agree with me a little easier. At any rate, many congrats on your season and your success with the little guns! A good day to all, and Happy Mothers Day to any mothers who happen to be reading about double guns!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Thanks for the welcome! Yes, I am aware of several hunters using tungsten in a .410, and they are as effective as 3.5" 12 gauge guns shooting lead.
Stupid comments like that should not be allowed on the internet. Steve,you've just met the anti-tungsten shot turkey meister contigency of the forum, rumored to be president of the Earth is Flat Society. Without a doubt, tungsten 9s out of a 20 gauge are as effective as any load of lead #4's shot out of an SBE. To argue otherwise is not stupid, just not based on reality or fact. Not stupid, just militantly ignorant. If stupid is allowed on the net, it is only fair that militantly ignorant is allowed. Stupidity is incurable; militant ignorance takes a lot of time and might as well be considered incurable, but there's always hope. I won't go as far as saying tungsten makes a .410 as effective a turkey gun as lead in an SBE, but I don't consider your remark stupid. Tungsten 9s make a .410 a legit 40 yard gun, but hands down, a 20 with TSS9s is another story as we both know. jOe, hope your season was a good one. One day you will come under Pixie Dust's spell. It already has your attention. Gil I'm not "anti-tungsten" I shoot Winchester extended range out of my SBE. As far as your fairy dust sized shot for turkey I can assure you it will never happen with me. #9 size shot of any material for turkeys is for total idiots plain and simple.
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64 |
>>>#9 size shot of any material for turkeys is for total idiots plain and simple.<<<
5 years ago, when folks were first starting to use the heavy tungsten for turkeys, I was pretty skeptical about #9 being big enough for turkeys too. That's the reason I started out using 8s, and have killed a bunch of turkeys with them.
But as dozens and dozens of good hunters have switched to #9, and as test after test has shown it has sufficient penetration power at ridiculous ranges, I finally had to agree that the 9s are overall better than the 8s. You get a denser pattern, so you can make a bigger pattern that still will easily kill the turkey.
Joe, there were a lot of folks listening to your opinions 5 years ago and thinking maybe you were right, but the evidence is so overwhelming against you now that I don't think many are listening anymore.
Doesn't matter to me; shoot whatever you want. Just kill the turkey if you are gonna shoot at him.
And I apologize to all for contributing to this excellent thread getting so far off topic. I thought my experience with the wall-eyed shooting sxs might help somebody understand barrel convergence a little better, and I'll be the first to admit I need to know a lot more about it myself. The extreme of a 5 lb gun and 1.75 oz loads made what is a minor problem in most sxs guns into a major problem in mine. I would think the same effect is likely to occur in any sxs gun, but is greatly exaggerated in mine.
Good hunting to all!
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Coosa; I am not a turkey hunter so have not entered into this portion of the discussion. I have killed a Grand Total of two turkeys in my life, both with a 12 Ga & a 1 3/8oz load of lead 4's. hey both did die Dead, on the spot, neither was extreme range by any means. I did understand the purpose of your original post & it did very well illustrate the point of the fact the gun moves after pulling the trigger & before the shot exits the muzzle. The heavy shot load at a comparatively low muzzle velocity will give it just a bit more time to move, thus accentuating the problem, as of course will the very light weight gun. I will also note the problem does also exist in an over/under as well. Their bbls also converge though not to the extent of a SxS. Due to the higher plane of its axis from the point of contact with the shoulder the upper bbl would have a tendency to center its pattern higher than the lower "AND NOT" just by the amount of separation of the bbls, which would be insignificant as far as pattern placement goes.
Miller/TN I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 272 Likes: 64 |
>>>I will also note the problem does also exist in an over/under as well. Their bbls also converge though not to the extent of a SxS. Due to the higher plane of its axis from the point of contact with the shoulder the upper bbl would have a tendency to center its pattern higher than the lower "AND NOT" just by the amount of separation of the bbls, which would be insignificant as far as pattern placement goes.<<<
Very good post, and I have friends using o/u guns shooting the exact same load I am and they didn't have as much difficulty getting their guns dialed in as I did. Everyone that I have heard about behaved exactly as you predicted, with one barrel shooting higher than the other. Some corrected it by using 2 different loads, and others just remember to aim high or low.
I'm thinking it likely that the only way I will ever get a quality sxs to shoot this load to the POA is to have one specially made for it, and it doesn't look like there is anyone around who would do it.
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