doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Tight 16ga. Chokes?

I am considering a sxs European 16ga. shotgun that was built back in the 20's. It is nitro proofed ( I think). The stated chokes are described as "tight and tighter". If I could wish it they would turn into IC/M. Since that does not seem possible, can I open the chokes up, or use spreader loads: mostly 1oz. of 6's and 7.5's at 1100 fps? What say you? Thanks...

First I would pattern the gun with the shells you intend to use with it to see how it does shoot. Also I believe the chambers are 2 1/2" so you have to be careful there. And I would not increase the chamber length to 2 3/4" if they are not as now the gun is not in proof. Also you would be removing valuable wall thickness in an area that you need it in.

These chambers are a confirmed 2 3/4".

Unless you are going to be shooting this gun a LOT, I'd try spreaders first. At least two US mfrs. make them, plus Fiocchi.

those manufacturers are?

Imports are ok, too...

RST makes a 7/8 oz. 2 1/2" 16 ga spreader load of the appropriate pressure for a European double built in the 1920's. I've used them some for grouse & woodcock & I prefer them to the PolyWad spreader load.

Depending on your intended use if the gun truly is choked full & fuller you might want to consider opening the chokes as some point in time but I would pattern it & shoot it for a while before doing so.

IMHO super tight chokes are pretty useless for most types of shooting where a 16 ga is appropriate.

My father IM & IF choked 16 was a nightmare to shoot, today it is both useful and fun to shoot with .005 and .015 chokes.

It hurt a little to change the original chokes (especially as we had the oiginal patterning paperwork from the gunsmith-maker) but in the end it was worth it.

Try the spreader loads, if they work great, if not open the chokes up.

The chambers may be confirmed as currently being 2-3/4" but the question is was the gun built with them or, more likely, 2-1/2" chambers which were lengthened.

If the gun was proofed for 2-3/4" chambers there will usually be a marking on the flats of "70mm" (2-3/4"). If there's no marking on the flats it was built with 65mm (2-1/2") chambers and you should use the lighter ammo.

I'm in the same boat with a 16. It's choked .014 and .025. Since I'm a Grouse and Quail hunter, I'm getting mine opened up. Mod and Full is worthless for what I am planning for this gun (by a VERY competent barrel man).

My 1937 Manufrance 16 ga Ideal is choked IM in the right, Boston Strangler in the left, 65 mm chambers. I am going the expensive route, having found a late manufacture set of barrels in the white, factory 70 mm chambers. They are in France as we speak, preparing to make their way west. Will be looking for a good barrel man to fit and finish them after the upcoming bird season.

RST and Polywad make excellent spreader loads. I use the Polywad spreader in 16 gauge (2.5") in my A. Ilsley 16 FC barrel. It works fine for quail.

I had and I wish I still had a 1926 Pieper Bayard 16 with factory 70mm chambers.

Unless the gun in question is an extremely rare and valuable collector's item, I'd open the chokes to suit my needs. When I got my 1918 vintage, 12-gauge Husqvarna 310AS it sported .038" right and .044" left chokes. I had Kearcher open it to .010" right and .020" left and it is a lot more useful to me. Might have been even better to go to .005" and .010".

My only experience with spreaders was a flat of 12-gauge 1 1/8 ounce #7 1/2 Spred-R shells I got when my old gun club that was closing auctioned off all our inventory. I patterned a few in my Father's tight choked 2-frame Parker Bros. 12-gauge and the patterns were very patchy. I shot them up at skeet with a variety of my tight choked 12-gauges that don't see the day light very often.

I would just open the chokes up and be done with it. Make it as useful as you can and shoot it as much as you can. Then the next generation can carry on. 90% of these old doubles are choked too tight for most of our needs. Every one has their own favorite choke combo and I am no exception. Open it to something like .015 and .025 (mod & full) or .010 and .020 (skeet II and IM). I like the later combo for the 16 a lot and have used it in most of my 16's for the last ten years. It does what I need and works well for a wide range of game.

30 years ago I shot an entire hunting season with a gun that was I/C and killed everything from doves to quail to ducks and then geese. I just adjusted my shot and load to the game intended to be hunted and limited my range when needed. Most shots were inside 30 yards and everything was dead on arrival. 30 yards is a long shot for most hunting conditions on the East coast. And most will see 30 yards and think it is nearer 40 yards. In blinds I use to place distance markers at 25 yards as a guide. It became a known distance and shots with I/C worked well. SK II and I/M have become my go to combo for most situations these days. I am older and slower so a little more choke is OK as fast reflexes are a fond memory for the most part.

Spreaders do work, and you can even make your own if you reload, using the discs from Polywad. Spreaders are not recommended for covey birds like quail. Too much chance of putting a stray single pellet into a bird (or birds) other than the one you're aiming at.

As noted above, if you want the gun for clays (other than trap) and upland hunting with most birds shot inside 25-30 yards, the easiest and least expensive solution in the long run is to have the chokes opened.

Not recommended by whom, YOU?

A larger pattern is a larger pattern, regardless of how it is achieved, whether by a spreader load or by more open choke. A stray pellet from a larger pattern caused by an open choke can hit an unintended quail just the same as one from a spreader load, and just as likely.

SRH

Your experience in this respect closely approximates mine.