doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 17 Remington?

Kutter: After reading your last post I did a bit of digging and what I believe my old co-worker had shown me was a Marlin-made Model 16 with the National Firearms Company stamped on the barrel. Evidently, a number of different names could be found on these guns but each version was made by Marlin.

OK you pumpgun connoisseurs, how does the Sear's Ranger Model 30 20-bore compare to the Stevens 200? The mechanism looks similar, but the takedown seems to be more in-line with the Stevens 520 design.

How would the two guns compare as far as weight and dimensions? I would assume the Model 30s were made in the 1930s?

Sears/Ranger Model 30 is a Stevens 520(A?)IIRC.

Nice guns. Should be the straight top and bottom profile receiver, not the early stepped profile if I have that correct.
Top tang safety.
That change in profile came in the 1930's I think along with a couple of internal changes.

Lot's of 520's around and under different store brand names. Heavier than the Mod200 in 20gauge but you can still find parts unlike a 200.
12ga 520 by far more common but 20's and 16's are around. Smaller frame than the 12's and nice handling pump guns.
Completely different inside from the 200.
They are a J M Browning design,,unlike the gadgety looking Model 200!

Kutter: This one appears to be the earlier stepped profile receiver with the safety at the rear of the trigger guard. Any areas of concern with these variants? How much heavier than the 200 would you guess?

That's the early style,,the biggest difference aside from the receiver profile is inside.
The early style (520)uses flat springs for the mainspring, trigger spring, bolt latch, ect.
The later straight profile frame (520A) uses coil wire torsion mainspring, wire bolt latch spring, coil spring for the trigger.

I've never had a any of the above break on an early model.
I've owned probably 10 of the early models and half dozen of the late ones.

I have had to replace a few mainsprings on the 520A (coil torsion) that have just lost their power and were causing misfires.
They can be torqued open (unwound) in the opposite direction a bit to renew their strength, and that'll work for you for a while.
But they give it up shortly after the quick fix and a replacement has to be found. You have to watch what you buy as the 'new' mainspring may be just as relaxed as the one you want to replace.

Either 520 variation does wear out the ejector. Easy to get at.
A screw on the outside of the left receiver wall holds it in place in a slot inside. Two small 'hooks' are what kicks the shell out. The small space between them is for the left side extractor to ride past.
IIRC now there's two slightly different variations of the ejector.

The carrier spring breaks on occassion too. It's a small flat spring in both variations of the 520 tucked into a slot in the right rear wall of the frame. Two different types of those too.

Firing pins break occassionaly. Just fatigue from a lot of rounds I think. Dry fire does them no good and should be avoided.
I brazed one back together using the original pieces.
One I brazed on a piece of steel for a new front half, shaped it, lightly case hardened it. Both still going strong.

On very worn 520's, the bolt will come disconnected from the slide on the back stroke, leaving the bolt behind as you bring the slide forward. Not a good thing.

Easy to fix if the tip of the slide rod or the channel in the bolt it snaps into isn't damaged. A gentle upsweep curve to the slide rod is needed. You almost can't see it w/o sighting along it and you have to be careful placing it in as the slide rod is rivited into the sheet steel forend tube. It rips out easily if you try to bend the slide rod the wrong way. Many are solder/braze repaired back in place.

Starting to sound pretty bad!

Make sure the bbl to frame TD lock up is tight. The mag tube is rotated to lock the large 'nut' with the beveled lugs into the frame at the front.
They can be worn to the point were the bevel reaches their limit and no amount of tightening will take the looseness out of the TD . Shade tree fix is to peen the lugs (of course). That rarily works. You can shim the lugs and put it back together forever, never to be TD again, but it'll be tight!
You can build up the surfaces and refit,,or machine down the flat surface of the magazine nut and the bottom of the frame lug cut so the bevel can seat deeper.

The M200 weighs 6# right on the button.
I'm guessing,,but I'd say a 20ga M520 would weight just under 7#. Most of the extra weight is going to be in the bbl wall thickness.

Kutter: Thank-you for all of that! It sounds like the earlier flat-spring versions might be the better option here, and all of the issues you describe would be associated with heavily-used (and somewhat abused) guns that are getting to the end of their useful lives. When I look at a 520 (or the 200) I see the polar opposite of a fine doublegun. Two very different paths were chosen to achieve the same end (i.e. an effective shotgun!). They scream 1930s hardscrabble to me. There is no pretense, and little gentility. They were working man's guns that defended property and put food on the table. That raw honesty somehow makes them attractive to me, and the John Browning connection makes them even more appealing. I grew up shooting a Model 97 and the 520 seems to be the logical next step in that evolution. And, perhaps the best part of that, is that I can take that step without spending a significant sum to do it. An education in fine doubleguns is fraught with far-more peril.

For matters of trivia, I recently acquired an early Model 17 with UMC markings. It seems that there is some disagreement as to whether Remington Arms Union Metallic Company, inc, ever made a Model 17. I had one years ago and could not pass on this one as I didn't realize then how unusual it was. Model 17 is only marked on the barrel distal from the company markings. The receiver is clean. No barrel date codes and BO is marked above the four digit serial number on the underside of the receiver.

Never have seen one of those, and I've looked at quite a few of them.
It's been a while since I have even seen a good model 17 for sale-I bought just the barrel off the last wreck I saw, and now have two barrels for mine.

Best,
Ted

Very nice!! Pictures are worth a thousand words. Interesting to see that even though the company name changed guns that were already manufactured weren't remarked. I've seen Model 10 pumps that are marked "Remington Arms Co., Inc. successor to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc."

The Model 17 hadn't appeared by the last catalogue issued by Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc., Catalogue No. 50 --



In the aftermath of WW-I, Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. was floundering. On May 20, 1920, the board of directors elected to dissolve Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. and form a new corporation, Remington Arms Co., Inc. The new company was incoprorated under the laws of the State of Deleware on May 24, 1920, and Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. was dissolved on August 11, 1920. The only shotguns catalogued by Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. (1911 to 1916) and Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co., Inc. (1916 to 1920) were the 12-gauge Model 11 autoloader and the 12-gauge Model 10 pump.

Remington Arms Co., Inc. Catalogue No. 51 --

Very nice! Would an early Model 10 have the same but plate?