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Joined: Jun 2002
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I don't know the meaning of your post, Craig. Who are my role models you are referring to? Galbraith spoke to Currie's credentials. I cited Currie's mentoring Keynesian theory to Galbraith and others during the New Deal. What "facts" look like intolerant left-wing extremism?

Civility, Craig, doesn't enter into it. Civility is the glue that hold society together. It's the idea of toleration. It's not being "nice." It's the tie that binds people and countries dedicated to peace, order and good government. It's not looking for bogeymen where there aren't any.

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ed good Offline OP
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so, if god is dead? who killed um?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Originally Posted By: King Brown
....It's not looking for bogeymen where there aren't any.


The bogeyman doesn't enter in to it, at least not for me. What matters to me is policy based on socialism ideology. I'd hope you might imagine your grandkid's future. Tough to recommend work hard, keep you nose to the grindstone and it'll pay off, when you would punitively tax them to redistribute to a neighbor who you deem has some unfairness in their life.

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Our six children have decent educations, work hard and it's paid off in healthy and happy families in strong communities. They consider it a privilege to pay taxes, as Nancy and I do and my parents did, because it pays for the amenities of civilization.

We think taxes should go to those less fortunate in need, just as Americans do, because taxes also go to sectors and causes for which we don't agree. You bet I'm willing to pay through universal healthcare for a neighbour in need. Gladly, and pay and pay, grateful that I don't need the care myself.

Do I like paying for unemployment insurance and social welfare for slackers? Of course not. Who would? I also don't like topping up the treasuries of corporate welfare bums. Citizens of the US and Canada realize that millions currently on the street with little hope were put there by corporate greed.

They are cast in a lonely orbit of despair through no fault of their own, Craig. It may be your way to say suck it up, you're on your own. It's not the American way. Turning your back on the deserving, weak and poor is neither Christian or human. It's the antithesis of any common religious doctrine.
.

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uh king, may I suggest that most of those millions currently on the street were put there by there own failures. corporate greed has little to do with their situation...we used to live in a capitalist society where competition and change were the driving forces of the economy. those who were eager to compete and those who anticipated change thrived. those who did not, were left behind or became redundant. that used to be the nature of our world. the strong survived. the weak perished...now we are living in a nanny state, where failure is excused. one no longer has to work in order to survive. government will now take care of us all...and all we have to do is give up our freedom and put ourselves in their care...

and remember, the lord helps those who help themselves...and, all pigs are equal, but some are more equal.

Last edited by ed good; 08/15/13 09:31 PM.

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No, Ed, the workers in those plants whose jobs were shipped offshore and who lost their jobs and benefits from the Great Recession were casualties of marketing and fiscal mismanagement They didn't fail in their obligations to their employers. Employers reneged on their social and fiduciary responsibilities.

You must have a memory longer than mine if you can remember a capitalist society in the United States, Canada or anywhere else in the western world. There was a time when our societies were bloody in tooth and claw with money crushing any dissent, union-busting, lynching, power accruing to everyone but citizens and the electorate held in contempt and derision.

None of that occurred within living memory, Ed. Today we lived in a mixed economy of private and public enterprise as mutually dependant on each other as Siamese twins where citizens demand closer adherence to their constitutional rights. Call it socialism, nanny state, whatever you like but the US today is an expression of the will of the people through their legislatures.

Americans made, deliberately and consciously and democratically, conservatives and liberals together, the most powerful country on earth, generous and violent and empathetic, of surpassing church attendance with a belief, American critics have observed, "of a right, even a divine right, to kill others to purge the earth of evil."

Some members' Misfire sentiments---they're not representative of the great majority of Americans---sometimes make me wonder if the core faith of the United States can be found in the Gospels. But reality always emerges and, to answer your question above, it's apparent to me the God of love and tolerance is alive and well in America.

Last edited by King Brown; 08/15/13 11:02 PM.
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king: I grew up in the dog eat dog, competitive business world of nyc, in the seventies and eighties...much of what you describe above did not exist in that world.

and much of what you describe above sounds very nice...but, who is going to pay for it without a vibrant capitalist driven economy generating the gnp necessary to support it?

to paraphrase Maggie Thatcher: socialism works until you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Last edited by ed good; 08/16/13 07:02 AM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Quote:
"No, Ed, the workers in those plants whose jobs were shipped offshore and who lost their jobs and benefits from the Great Recession were casualties of marketing and fiscal mismanagement They didn't fail in their obligations to their employers. Employers reneged on their social and fiduciary responsibilities"

This above statement simply isn't true and I have first hand experience from working in the automotive industry. The UAW and IBEW ran wages and benefits up to the point where the companies were no longer competitive. At one time the Japanese automotive companies had, for example, a $600 assembly edge over the American companies. I don't know what the advantage is today.
Yes mistakes were made at the managerial level as well. Clinging to outmoded manufacturing processes was certainly one of them. Robotics was not embraced here until well after it was in common use elsewhere.
However; The primary management failure was caving into the excessive union demands which put American manufactured at a competitive disadvantage.
A more current view of extreme union abuse is what occurred in Wisconsin until the new Governor took on these public employee unions and reversed the stranglehold they had on that State.
Jim


The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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That's the big question, isn't it: Who's going to pay for strong, safe communities when the top 10 per cent is creaming it and the rest are falling behind, both parents working if they can, low birth rate, robots, globalization, cheap labour overseas, increasing costs of looking after you and me. Biblical injunctions of neighbour's keeper, Good Samaritans, eye of the needle won't get us through. (Jesus raging, long black whip cracking, just popped in my head!) Which circles back to members' notions here of social breakdown, public backlash, revolution, and speculation that fear of a vengeful underclass is driving survivalist cults, private militias, guns and ammunition on back order, and America's love of guns. Washington is Nero. Political theatre is comedy. The country, according to US polls, has forgotten how to govern.The looney right blames all of it on a "born-in-Kenya black moron in the White House."



Last edited by King Brown; 08/16/13 08:26 AM.
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Holy crap!

For once in his deranged (and endless) blather, Burger King is correct!

He must be sobering up.

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