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Joined: Oct 2012
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Maybe because the "born in Kenya" half black moron is STILL keeping all of his records as greater secrets than actual national secrets are.

Anyone that sneaky is hiding something for a reason.

And since he's been in charge the last 5 years...it actually IS all his fault. Bush got blamed for everything that didn't go wrong for the 8 years he was in office....and Obama spent 4 years blaming Bush for everything Obama actually screwed up.

He probibly still is only its not getting reported like it was.

Last edited by boneheaddoctor; 08/16/13 09:16 AM.

The liberals are asking us to give Obama time.
We agree, and think 25 to life would be Appropriate.
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Jim, what you say is true from your experience, and you spread blame around. I was a trade unionist with the American Newspaper Guild which evolved into a Canadian union of its own. A very rich man, Robert Kelly, made comments similar to yours to Halifax business people recently. The Canadian/Nova Scotian former head of the Bank of New York Mellon Corporation, also chancellor of St. Mary's University here, blamed unions for our current economic woes.

A Canadian professor of the university's Faculty of Commerce with a doctorate from University of Warwick, England, School of Industrial and Business Studies would have none of it. Larry Haiven wrote an op-ed for the province's newspaper of record, The Halifax Chronicle-Herald, headed by editors "Don't Blame The Unions." This is part of what he said:

"How unfair and inaccurate. After a financial meltdown caused by financial speculation, it is indeed rich to blame the 99 per cent for pursuing a better life through one of the most effective vehicles available---unions.

"Evidence across the country is that unions, even the strongest and largest bargaining units, have not done better than the workforce as a whole and the public sector workers have done worse than private. Were it not for trade unions, earning figures for the entire workforce would be lower than they are.

"Right-to-work states in the US, by and large, happen to be the low productivity ones. Across the world, highly unionized countries tend to be among the most productive and prosperous. A World Bank report a few years ago touted collective bargaining as an important contributor to coordinated labour markets.

"The financial crisis still plaguing us was fuelled precisely by the growing inequality in earnings, placing piles of capital in the hands of speculators dreaming up even more unstable tricks to produce results."

Another view, Jim. Germany is a high-wage economy with strong unions. I think they build cars.

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Thank you.

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Quote:
"Another view, Jim. Germany is a high-wage economy with strong unions. I think they build cars."

Those in the automotive trade fully understand that the German car manufacturing situation is somewhat unique. The demand for Porsche's,Mercedes and BMW's is essentially inelastic to use the economic term. In other words a prospective Porsche buyer doesn't really care whether the car is priced at $80,000 or $120,000. The want a Porsche and they'll buy one essentially irrespective of the cost.
But we digress:
Again all one has to do is look at the economic abyss that Wisconsin was pulled back from or the unionized worker situation in Greece and it's apparent that the negative effect of public unions cannot be tolerated forever. These two crisis were caused by bloated union demands and there is NO other explanation for them.
We went through a horrific economic and budgetary crisis in my own State of Arizona when Napolitano was running the show. I am grateful to Obama for ONE thing and that was getting her the hell out of Arizona. Under Governor Jan Brewer, a fiscal conservative, we're gone from a billion dollar annual deficit to a projected 800 million dollar surplus in 2013.
IMO: Public employee unions should be outlawed period!

Last edited by italiansxs; 08/16/13 10:24 AM.

The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Thanks, Jim. I don't know anything about cars and the German circumstance re marketing is certainly interesting. I just noted on google that Germany as world's fourth biggest manufacturer produces nearly 12 million motor vehicles yearly, half and half at home and overseas, including millions of cars besides Porsche. Any idea how Germany is prosperous and productive with strong unions while others vote for lower wages without them to make ends meet? Is it more technically advanced than the US? In this dog-eat-dog world, is US competing with lower wages the road to the bottom? I respect your opinion.

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
That's the big question, isn't it: Who's going to pay for....


I think you just told us a bit ago that you grand kids are going to pay and happily so. They must be perpetuating that top ten percent cream thing because it doesn't sound like they're falling behind.

Sorry to snip out your attempts at civility, but why all the gloom and doom. Can't you see a healthier and thus happier nation due to money saving o-care. All our energy costs have gone down and climate change has been reversed by 'investment' in some things green. Food stamps have eliminated the hungry. The world loves the US and military is becoming unnecessary. Gay pride has taken a fair share of the money pot.

How could you call him a black moron. He has confirmed your feeling about the importance of division and prejudice to advance an agenda.

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
Our six children have decent educations, work hard and it's paid off in healthy and happy families in strong communities. They consider it a privilege to pay taxes, as Nancy and I do and my parents did....

....Craig. It may be your way to say suck it up, you're on your own. It's not the American way. Turning your back on the deserving, weak and poor is neither Christian or human. It's the antithesis of any common religious doctrine.
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Good for you and your kids, I pay taxes too. You don't know a bit about me. I'd never turn my back on the truly needy. 'Deserving'?, deserve what, a double gun or maybe a 'strong community'. 'Weak' as in can't hold your liquor, or can't climb up on a bar stool. 'Poor', are you attaching a stigma, are you saying if they receive welfare then they are in their place.

On all those points King, you and your kids can bypass the tax system and give away money directly in the way you see fit. Just one catch, not a little bit to make you feel better about yourself, but redistribute until your kids live in a middling community and you elevate those poor communities to the standard that your kids will step down to.

Oh, I see, not for you and yours, just those who you are able to demonize.

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ed good Offline OP
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this declining economy of ours goes back beyond ob...nafta is a good place to start tracing the recent decline of our domestic economic capitalist system...

and then there is the fact that gw increased the federal debt greater than any pres since fdr....medicare d, without revenues to fund it is really dumb! and making war, without revenues to pay for it is even dumer!

and then, the icing on the cake is the keynesian economics that ob has been pursuing for the past several years...never has worked here in the past. no reason it will work now.

hopefully, a guy like trump will be our next pres and along with a friendly congress, begin to bring us back to a capitalist, profit driven society.

Last edited by ed good; 08/16/13 12:13 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
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I am going to defer to one of our European members in regards to the question about other cars like Volkswagen which certainly have price sensitive buyers. I am not aware of what the relationship is between Volkswagen and their unions.
I had to go back and re-familiarize myself with J M Keynes as I've slept a few nights since reading anything about him. Yep: He's the government must control the economy economist and he's recently fallen out of favor in many courts.
As an Aside: I didn't realize until I looked the Keynes was a avowed homosexual.** Well he was an avowed homosexual until he reached middle age and fell in love with a Russian Ballerina whom he married. From that point on he was apparently straight which raises a question for me.
The Gays and their supporters claim they are born Gay and no effort to turn them straight will be successful. Keynes seems to pretty much belie this belief.

**I doubt if this was brought up in my Macro economics class back in the 1960s!! grin

Last edited by italiansxs; 08/16/13 12:42 PM.

The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Yeah, Keynes was gay as so many other luminaries reveal themselves to us every day. Spiritual belief aside, sexual preference isn't worth thinking about to me except when it comes to pedophiles.

I suspect many marriages are arrangements, peculiar or otherwise, maybe even a majority before their end. I go along with our former brilliant and outrageous prime minister Pierre Trudeau who said "Government has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

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