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Good on you, Craig. You've found a way to pay directly from your pocket for clean water, safer highways, better social services and environment and all those other amenities for the common good.

My kids pay taxes like most of us here, rather than subscribing to your notion of bypassing the system to allow discretionary money to drip from their hands like charity to where they think it is needed to make them feel good.

Your notion is a peculiar conservatism, an euphemism for selfishness.



Last edited by King Brown; 08/16/13 02:24 PM.
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ed good Offline OP
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Keynesian economics (also called Keynesianism) describes the economics theories of John Maynard Keynes. Keynes wrote about his theories in his book The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money. The book was published in 1936.

Keynes said capitalism was a good economic system. In a capitalism system, people earn money from their work. Businesses employ and pay people to work. Then people can spend their money on things they want. Other people work and make things to buy. Sometimes the capitalism system has problems. People lose their work. Businesses close. People cannot work and cannot spend money. Keynes said the government should step in and help people who do not have work.

This idea is called "demand-side policy". If people are working, the economy is good. If people are not working, the economy is bad.

Keynes said when the economy is bad, people want to save their money. That is, they do not spend their money on things they want. As a result there is less economic activity.

Keynes said the government should spend more money when people do not have work. The government can borrow money and give people jobs (work). Then people can spend money again and buy things. This helps other people find work.

Some people, such as conservatives, libertarians, and people who believe in Austrian economics, do not like Keynes' ideas. They say government work does not help capitalism. They say when the government borrows money, it takes money away from businesses. They do not like Keynesian economics because they say the economy can get better without government help.

During the late 1970's Keynesian economics became less popular because inflation was high.

When a big recession happened in 2007, Keynesian economics became more popular. Leaders around the world (including Barack Obama) created stimulus packages which would allow their government to spend a lot of money to create jobs...

So how come it aint workin?

Last edited by ed good; 08/16/13 03:01 PM.

keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Most of the yip-yapping is whether it's working or not, Ed. Gun slingers of both sides can provide evidence it is or isn't, depending on particular circumstances and interpretations of the economy.

The Keynesian remedy worked against unemployment and depression but not in reverse against inflation. It worked during Depression years with FDR, faltered when big business got him to dump it, and the ensuing slump was rescued by the war.

I look at it this way: It's working or it wouldn't be used. When financial chaos descended around the world, we heard of corporations being too big to fail and then within a few years, as in the EU, governments too big to fail.

Angela Merkel spent German treasure to keep weak economies afloat on terms of reform. Economies, by and large, were so interdependent there was no other option. Germany didn't want an invasion of jobless from southern Europe.

The US had already screwed up with weak regulations. Under stress from a waning economy and military adventures, it chose between letting its financial and industrial infrastructure go under---as capitalism is supposed to work---and spending with hopes of evading chaos.

Hopes. Expectations of something better.

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
....Keynesian remedy....I look at it this way: It's working or it wouldn't be used....

....financial chaos descended around the world, we heard of corporations being too big to fail....



Maybe, you might recall rahm e.'s, former chiefostaffs', comment that I like to beat like a dead horse. 'Never let a crisis go to waste, what I mean by that is it lets you do things that you didn't think were possible before'. A good for example is, you can get lock step libs to repeat the corporate bashing talking points when in fact the bailouts were nothing more than selectively showing appreciation to political supporters, in this case unions.

I can understand you calling me selfish, but again you know nothing about me. Time and time again though you've shown you advocate redistribution, as long as there is minimal impact on you and yours. I'd never presume to speak for your situation, but do you have some thing you're willing to do to level the 'strong' community that you get to live in down to some mid level community and elevate the weak community. Or, are you too selfish to give up what you have in the name of achieving fairness for others.

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Keynesian economics is the science of kicking the can down the road by applying temporary patches and band-aids which eventually fail. It is the science of gov't. hacks picking winners and losers. We are over $17 trillion in debt with no obvious way of repaying the principal, and just the interest costs are chewing up a large portion of yearly incoming revenue. Proponents of this idealogy can only point to the fact that we haven't yet gone down in flames as proof of success. They ignore the kindling and the gasoline and the matches.

The problem with propping up losers over an extended period of time is that it compounds the problem and places more and more capital at risk. The snowball gets larger as it rolls down the hill. When it finally hits bottom, the damage is much greater. Then the very people who allowed the snowball to get larger will point to the damage and say we should have done more... by making the snowball even larger.

The economy is cyclic by nature. Often, when good times return, the snowball is slowed down or may even temporarily stop rolling. This is when dishonest folks like King and Obama can claim credit for something that they and their policies had absolutely nothing to do with.

Originally Posted By: Dave K
King ,
you agree with this quote ?
"Which country went down the wrong path of social policy by encouraging low income households to take on mortgage loans that they can never pay back"

This of course refers to the CRA ( which forced banks,through community organizer's like B Hussien Obama, to loan money to people who could not and did not pay it back !)


Here, we have Dave K asking King a question about the real and true cause of the Great Recession of 2008. Again, King totally ignores the question and moves on to put it behind him by spouting more bullshit. King did the very same thing to Dave K previously in this thread. And he has done it many times before this.

Originally Posted By: keith
DaveK, I'm sure you are noticing how King deftly dances around any facts and simply moves on to even more Libtard fantasy. Now he's talking about the costs of incarceration while ignoring the fact that a career criminal costs society much much more when they are on the street committing crimes. I'm only talking about monetary costs and omitting the human suffering they cause. And he ignores the fact that it was the Great Society, which is a breeding ground for fatherless men, with no morals and no values, who go on to become incarcerated. Why debate whether incarceration of violent career criminals is more or less expensive than social welfare programs when it is social welfare programs that exacerbate the problem in the first place? King seems incapable of telling or even grasping the truth. You have to wonder about his mental state.


King, under Canadian National Health Care, how long do you suppose it would take you to get the psychiatric help you obviously need?


King also ignored this. We all know he uses the very feminine tactic of pretending to ignore me, using the lie that I put words in his mouth several months ago. But he also ignores others who posted similar concerns and facts about the subject. Careful there, if you press him too hard, his estrogen will reach boiling point and he will pretend to ignore you forever!

I've called this the dance of the Gnomoron, because Gnomoron used to use the very same Libtard tactic of ignoring uncomfortable facts or refutations of Liberal lies and stupidity.

craigd has apparently noticed this too, and he has called King out on it several times recently. King always responds with some vague and totally unrelated blather and completely sidesteps the question. Yet some say they still like the guy and apparently give him a pass because of his advanced age. I too used to give him a pass because of his advanced age and I also fell for his fake civility for a time.

Originally Posted By: King Brown
Your notion is a peculiar conservatism, an euphemism for selfishness.


Here's an excerpt from King's post here at 1:11 PM today. Read the whole thing for yourselves to see how King used three short sentences to call craigd selfish. More name calling from Mr. Civility. Yet King is always piously lecturing us about the incivility here in the Misfires forum which he claims to despise. And still he can't stay away, having now made 210 posts in Misfires since 4/23/13 when he dishonestly said he'd just be an observer here.

This is why I've shared my opinion that King is a fraud and a pathological liar. And I'm done giving him excuses because of his age, because, in my opinion, it's obvious he's been a liar and a fraud all his life.

The rest of you can continue to think you can have a civil debate with a guy who will just ignore you when you counter him with a fact or figure which he cannot refute. Me... I'll just call liars "liars, and frauds "frauds".


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted By: craigd

I can understand you calling me selfish, but again you know nothing about me.


craigd, Burger King (home of the Whoppers)is not going to admit to calling you a derogatory name because he used the same clever ploy that he always uses to call people names. He thinks that if he doesn't come straight out like a man and say "craigd, you are selfish", that he has not been insulting. Or at least, that's what he wants us all to believe. Once a fraud, always a fraud.

edit: Oh wait, since I have brought his dishonesty into the daylight, we can expect a phony quasi-apology that goes something like this; "If you think I have called you selfish, that was not my intent." We've all seen that ploy used by Burger King before. I just wanted to beat him to the punch this time. Now he'll have to try something he doesn't usually do. Maybe admit he was wrong or act like a man.

Perhaps he will simply blame the statement on an unnamed president of a White Southern University. Or Wiccan Priests. Or computer hackers... there's a good one for you King!

Last edited by keith; 08/16/13 06:41 PM.

A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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so, how cum key nes ian economics aint workin here in 2013?


keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Originally Posted By: King Brown


Unregulated, anything-goes fiscal policy---which anticipates busts as integral to the blow-and-go "capitalist" system---got us in this mess in the first place.

We may agree on that.


There were few complaints when Washington started spending.



King, I hate to pile on....haven't been following this too closely lately as I have been working but you do know these statements to be false.

We all know now the smoking gun of the economic collapse was the move by the Democratic Clinton administration to change the rules on mortgages to ensure just about anyone could qualify.

So knowing that, as we all do, we can't be agreeing that there is some other cause. It certainly was not caused by free and unfettered markets.

And, there were plenty of complaints from all corners when both Washington and Ottawa started spending.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Quote:
"We all know now the smoking gun of the economic collapse was the move by the Democratic Clinton administration to change the rules on mortgages to ensure just about anyone could qualify"

This above point is essentially correct although it is now known that the seed that initiated this process began with the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 passed when the original Libtard Bumbler was in office. Left wing radical groups such as ACORN(Obama's Goon Squad) threatened to bring suit against banks that refused to grant No-Doc - No down payment loans to minorities and otherwise unqualified individuals after the rules were further loosened during the Clinton administration. The damning evidence to support the CRA is published right in the 1992 Democratic Platform so its impossible to deny this was the facts. I watched this whole sorry situation unfold first hand in Maricopa, AZ where about the only requirement that had to be met to get a loan was to demonstrate you were a breathing human being.
Libtards will continue to deny this CRA/Democrat initiated fiasco because to admit the truth is to confirm the utter financial disaster ultimately caused by this program under the Clinton Administration. What the hell, If you're a Libtard and if a 17 trillion dollar national debt doesn't matter what's just mere untold billions in bad housing loans?
I cited specific factual examples of extreme mortgage abuse in previous threads that I was personally familiar with and won't bother doing so again as the Libtards on this forum in typical fashion just ignore facts anyway.

Last edited by italiansxs; 08/17/13 01:35 AM.

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There is no sense or advantage to making a false statement. Financial blow-outs usually have more than one cause.

Clinton/Fanny was part of it. So was Wall Street and the Federal Reserve/Greenspan.

The short of that is "unregulated, anything goes . . ." Regulations were weak.
They were selling stuff that couldn't be explained.

Free and unfettered markets didn't enter into it. Do you know of any?

There were few complaints from the hoi polloi.

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