doublegunshop.com - home Forums Nukes

Your post helps me to understand your position. For sure Israel has the will but you may also be sure Netanyahu has been told the US will not clean up the mess as he expects it to do.

"Determination to see something through" by itself isn't enough. Okay for Grenada, Panama and the Philipines but not for adventures where other sides with powerful friends want it more than we do.

Unless you agreed with Curtis LeMay in Vietnam and Douglas MacArthur in Korea. Both were set straight by the White House. Few places are more volatile to set something off than the Middle East.

Obama lusts for a no-war legacy, to bring the troops home, get his country on its feet financially and socially, to hell with US solving all the world's problems, bleeding its best and treasury. That's my take; others can have theirs.

A late Postscript: the USA didn't emanate as a virginal nation under the hand of God. It arrived from competing interests of England, Spain and France. Sort of like the current violence and old empire interests in the Middle East, eh? A remnant. And if you'll accommodate a speck of birthplace chauvinism, it was Nova Scotia that brought freedom of the press and responsible government to British North American colonies. A newspaperman did it.

Obama is mentally ill....he views himself like some greek god...when in reality he's just another smooth talking idiot thats gotten himself into a mess he can't talk himself out of. And more and more people that fell for his bullshit the first time are waking up to see the mistake they made.

You left out Italy's distinct contribution to the culinary world. I wonder how long the party will last before someone has to turn off the music and clean up the mess.

I think it must be efficient-or-something municipal governments that keep Italy a delight to visit. It's not the federal government. The country's governance is a mystery to me.

THere is nothing efficient about Italian Government.....trust me...

Its all practically like a circus...

Speaking as someone who lived and worked there for 6 years.....and has spent a month a year for most of the last 22 years there.


My father-in-law retired from their Dept of Justice....my Sister-in-law works there now....my wife worked there part tim in her youth....and one of her cousins was a Mayor, and an uncle was a Chief of police for an entire Province.

There must be something going on in municipalities to keep them reasonably tidy and generally peaceful and a pleasure to visit. To visit, I said earlier.

The bureaucracy is a circus, a phantasmagoria as you say, almost impossible to penetrate. So what makes it a pleasure to visit? Half-decent town and city councils?

Good point. I'd never think it would be the people, settings, culture or traditions. We must always look to government to define and dictate the pleasures we are entitled to.

Local governments are even wors than the national entities....

I don't know what part of Italy you think of as tidy....its a pretty gritty place as far as I'm concerened. Doesn't mean I dislike it...juts tidy and clean is never mentioned in the same breath as Italy. Unlike much of Germany for example.

Don't rely on movies....they clean up things in the filming area prior to filming for example....

I've seen many things on film I've seen in person....and had to ask my wife when did they fim that...because I never saw it that clean before.

I do believe King's first statement here. It has become quite clear that Obama does not have the same affection or appreciation for our only real allies in the Middle East as any of his predecessors did.

You have to be delusional or insane to think that a president who refuses to negotiate even a nickel of a budget with a $1.5 trillion annual deficit has any interest in getting the country on its' feet financially... or socially. The social fallout will come through inevitable inflation which will make the poor even poorer. Obama is projected to add well over $12 trillion to our national debt. The burden will fall most heavily on our kids. There is no such thing as a free lunch. An immutable law of finance is that all debt is paid... by someone.

As per the newspaperman who brought freedom of the press and responsible government to the British Colonies... one can only imagine how horrendous that would have turned out if Burger King or most of his liberal press cohorts ruled the roost back then.

King, some might think we are discussing semantics about the use of the word "will" but I do not believe that to be true.

I am not arguing for one second what the fallout of the US acting to destroy Iran's potential nuclear capability might be. Why they may or may not act. Nor am I arguing about what may happen if Israel did it. I am not arguing about back channel discussions that may or may not have taken place between any of the interested parties.

I am simply stating what should be obvious.

There is a difference between having the will to act and wishing to act but feeling constrained for whatever reason. The US has unarguably felt restrained from taking decisive action to stop other countries from gaining a nuclear capability. It doesn't matter whether that has been an internal reason (attitude of populace/political fallout) or external reason (foes and allies being dismayed and feeling forced to respond in some fashion).

To suggest the US has the "will" to stop Iran, or in the past tense, Korea, India, Pakistan etc., is just not factual. If they did, they would have. They haven't had the stomach for the fallout of such action.

THAT MEANS THEY HAVEN'T HAD THE WILL.