doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Buying a top tier English gun with new barrels

KY,
The second set of barrels are newer, not the first as I understood it.

builder

According to the website it mentions only the new set of barrels, not the first set. I suspect that the gun has just the new set of barrels. I could be wrong. It sounds to me that the first set of barrels were trashed and the owner chose to have a new set made rather than have the old set sleeved. Maybe he did not want a "heavy sleeved barrel" and had enough money to have the job done first class. Still I would look at the entire gun and make sure that this os not one which has seen extensive heavy use. New tires does not make a cream puff in a car and new barrels does not make a mint condition gun.

If you've a gun rebarreled by another Ted - say an Boss&Co with a set of T. Wild's barrels hung on the action; what do you have?
Do you still have a Boss?
Performance wise, wouldn't that be like a set of Sears tires on an Aston Martin!

Caveat Emptor,
Beware, I have seen rebarreled guns that have been done by first class craftsman (many of whom do the original barrels for Best makers as outworkers)and they have fitted the original rib.So how do you really know what you are buying.
If I was a wealthy American, I would leave the market alone and allow it to become depressed and let us poor Brits retain our heritage.
In any case, boys, you now have your RBL's.

We'd do that salopian, but you guys keep sellin' em to us!
As soon as the ol' coot goes to his reward - the folks up and sell his beloved Purdey.

Lowell Glenthorne

They only do it, sell their family guns, to pay the taxes. More than one great estate has been sold off to pay the taxes. If you think our taxes are high here you should look at some of thiers.

Lucky for me I am now a leader of a religon. Church of the latter day side by sides, small bore demonitaion. That makes all my worship purchases tax deductable and tax free. Kind of like a never never land for old shooters. Wait I see your in the back pew. Move on to the front row.

That's bunk KY!
"Wealthly Americans," kinda hits the spot.
With the countryside sports in decline, and the number of invited London shooters lessing everyday, the sale of the ol' boy's Purdey will be used for a season's worth of Chelsea football.
...and who better to get the ol' boy's Purdey - even the most backwoods types have some means to hunting land.
Altho', it might be yours!

Sorry KY I missed your post. There were two nice barrels in the case. I did not inspect carefully since I don't know enough to evaluate something like that. I meant it only as a lead for KDRoss to check out. Thinking about it afterward, I recall a single trigger (Miller) also so I would guess that it was used for clay games and probably well used. On the other hand, it looked like it was well taken care of and I did ask Niles about the originality of the rest of the gun. I think he is knowledgeable and honest and his reply left me with the feeling it was worth following up. Again, it was just another lead to be followed and although it was 5K more than the intended outlay, it had the second set of barrels. I assume (you know what that makes me)the Teague chokes bodes well (since they are thought of highly and are not obvious cosmetically)as to how the gun was taken care of. Whether it is no longer original (trigger and chokes) may or may not matter to Mr. Ross as long as the rest of the gun is original. Despite the fact that I like fixed chokes I do see the value of changeable chokes regardless of the gun. Maybe that is why the Purdy next to it was 45K. I really don't know value in that heady atomosphere.

For guns around 1905, you may have happened on a "light weight game gun" made with thinner walled barrels on purpose. Barrels may have been about thirty inches long originally and perhaps been under .025 at the thinnest points of the walls. The tendency is to not go that thin now and make the barrels perhaps twenty-eight inches long to try to achieve the desired balance.

For example, a Stephen Grant from that period would typically be as described and might weigh a few ounces shy of seven pounds. The pair at Holt's are a good example from the April 17 catalogue.

You will need to take a look at the how the gun feels as well as compare to original to check out the points raised. It may be a great buy that will answer your needs or you may bemoan what happened to an otherwise lively gun.

By "top tier English gun" I suppose you mean a best quality SLE from Boss, H&H, Purdey, or Woodward. Such guns are valued in the USA retail market at around $15,000 in heavily used, but not abused, current condition. That is a right fair chunk of change for a heavily used gun. Since the market supports this value, we have to believe such guns are both scarce and highly desirable. So, who buys such guns?

I divide the market's buyers into Collectors, Collector-Shooters, Shooter-Collectors, and Shooters. "Collector" is motivated by attributes other than his own shooting. The "Shooter" is only interested in shooting quality. The $15,000 price moves these guns into the Collector-Shooter range, as it is hard to ascribe $15,000 of shooter value to a heavily used gun. The Collector-Shooter finds a balance between the desirability of the gun in high condition vs its remaining shooting quality.

Replacement barrels, even by the maker, takes a whack at the Collector value as Original/Pristine current condition is so highly desirable. The Shooter, on the other hand, uses current condition to asses remaining shooting quality and economy. The barrel condition is one key to the overall condition of the gun. New condition barrels makes this assesment more difficult. Replacement parts always beg the question of, "Why?" "Has this gun been so heavily used as to wear out the original barrels?" Or, "Did the original barrels meet some untimely fate?" "Are the new ones as good as the OE?" Any time there is a question, good answer or not, the price goes down.

Using the above as a framework, I plan to further study this question based on London auction results. Most auctions have several guns that fit the assumed discription, so "comparables" should be easy.

Good question!!