doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Punched Steel

I have recently seen references(c.1870s)to "punched steel" barrels. Anyone have information on this?

W.W. Greener The Gun and Its Development: With Notes on Shooting, 1881
http://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAAAAAQAAJ
p. 253 A reference to boring decarbonized shotgun barrels
http://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAAAA...eel&f=false

I believe it is one in the same or very similar to the Deakin & Johnson process(if there is such) and some of the early French rifles were from a method of processing ingots like one would punch out a tyre.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's a snippet from 1868. I've seen it in other texts on Iron & Steel:

The Chassepot rifles are all being made in this way, but another method known, as that of Deakin & Johnson is being introduced with considerable probability of its general adoption. In this process the ingots, after being hammered to about live inches in diameter, are cut into pieces of suitable weight for a gun barrel, and punched in the same manner as has been described for the punching of tires. The blanks so punched are heated and hammered, and then rolled over a mandril into a cylindrical tube about afoot in length, which is again heated and rolled over a mandril into a gun barrel. This process forms the subject of a patent although it is difficult to find anything in the process which is novel, except, possibly, in its limitation to gun barrels. It is applicable however either to cast steel or to Bessemer steel the latter being generally employed.

http://books.google.com/books?id=bGaHxMA...rel&f=false
1868

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Don't know if this is one in the same or not:

Punched Steel Tubes: It is stated that by a new German process steel tubes for boiler work are punched from the hot metal. A bar of steel is placed in a matrix of sufficient strength, and having a hole the exact diameter of the tube; then without allowing time for the steel to cool, a mandrel having a rounded end is forced lengthwise into the mass. Tubes nearly 8 inches in diameter are thus produced the pressure required to operate the mandrel being 180 tons. The tube is finished by drawing and redrawing to the required thickness.

http://books.google.com/books?id=8SZLAAA...els&f=false
1895

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

In the above Spirally Welded Tubes, most interesting to see how observant Heinrich Ehrhardt was on the pattern welded effort in Suhl & Zella Sankt Blasii. I'm sure he applied his vision to his patents based on his observations. Notes some effort in U.S. of A.??

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Deakin & Johnson of Blisten - 1866

Spirally Welded Tubes:

The original Armstrong guns were made on a similar principle. A heated square bar was wound into a spiral on a revolving mandril and the coils then closed by hammering the block on end under a steam hammer; but except for sporting guns such methods are now abandoned. Indeed as early as 1866, Messrs Deakin & Johnson, of Bilston, were making weldless rifle barrels from a steel block about 1 inches diameter and 8 inches long, by punching a hole from each end under a steam hammer, and then rolling the blank presumably in the same way as weldless tubes are now rolled in the process of "rolling off" previously described. The old patterns of military rifle barrels having a bore over inch diameter were thus made until quite recently; but the barrels of the modern rifles, having bores only about half the size, must be drilled entirely out of the solid.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RaF9AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA512&lpg=PA512&dq=Deakin+%26+Johnson+steel&source=bl&ots=IcJAVTBfQ-&sig=niinp7YV6jDSzq-R1ZjwZNN6Gbc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IGbHUti-Fc6gkAe4oIH4CA&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Deakin%20%26%20Johnson%20steel&f=false
1911

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

From my study of William Powell & Son guns, it appears they used
"punched steel" for shotgun barrels as early as 1872.

I don't see it, but Mick gives his offering has the term "Punched Steel" on the tubes?

http://www.micksguns.com/whats%20new.htm
about 6th or 7th one down.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

1868 Advert

William Deakin and John Bagnall Johnson - British patent Nr. 647 of March 3rd, 1866

Patent Punched Steel Tube Company - Albion Works - West Bromwich

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Seems the concern began on the coattails of Thompson's Patent Punched Steel, Ordnance, Gun Barrel and Tube Company - I wonder if James Thompson had expired?

The London Gazette, April 25, 1865

"Notice is hereby given, that the Partnership lately subsisting
between us, James Thompson, of Bliston, Staffordshire,
Ironmaster, John Bbagnall Johnson, of Wolverhampton, Staffordshire,
Ironmaster, heretofore carrying on trade under the style or firm
of Thompson's Patent Punched Steel, Ordnance, Gun Barrel and
Tube Company, was this day dissolved by mutual consent, as to
the said James Thompson; all debts owing to the said partnership
are to be received by the said John Bagnall Johnson, and
William Deakin, whose receipts shall be a sufficient discharge
for the same - Dated this 23rd day of April, 1865"


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Patent Punch Steel Tube Manufacturing faltered in 1869

The London Gazette, December 7, 1869

:... the said county of Stafford, in partnership with William Deakin and
John Bagnall Johnson, under the style of Deakin of Johnson, as
Patent Punch Steel Tube Manufacturing, by whom a Petition for
adjudication of Bankruptcy was filed in the Court of Bankruptcy forthe Birmingham District at Birmingham, on the 15th day of October,1869,will be held at the said Court at Birmingham, on the 17th day of December, 1869, at tweleve o'clock at noon, to consider and resolve as to whether any further proceedings be taken in Bankruptcy, and whether the same shall not be suspended, and the estate and effects of said bankrupt be wound up, administered, and disposed of, in such way as the majority in number and value of the creditors shall by any resolution to be then and there passed resolve and determine. Creditors who have not already proved their debts can do so at this Meeting. - Dated this 4th day of December, 1869"

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The Edinburgh Gazette, May 28, 1869

"John Bagnall Johnson, of Wolverhampton, lately carrying on business at Westbromwich, both in Stafford, in partnership with
William Deakin and Richard Dodd, under the style of Deakin and Johnson, patent punch steel tube manufactures"

Wonder if John Bagnall Johnson expired????


With Richard Dodd as a partner, Deakin & Johnson was dissolved on June 1st, 1869

Possibly odd it was dissovled prior to bankruptcy??

Manufacture of hollow projectiles. Being British Patent Number: 1221 published: 30 April 1866

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=942977806&searchurl=an%3Dwilliam%2Bdeakin%26amp%3Bsortby%3D1


Held British Patent Nr. 901, March 27th of 1866

Short lived venture & I'm curious what James Thompson's contribution might have been and any relationship between the above & William Powell.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The London Gazette, March 18, 1870

"This is to give notice, that the Court acting in the prosecution of a Petition for adjudication of Bankruptcy, filed in Birmingham District Court of Bankruptcy, at Birmingham, on the 15th day of October, 1869, by Richard Dodd, of Perry Barr, in the parish of Handsworth, in the county of Stafford, Ironworks Manager, lately carrying on the business at Nunmore-Lane Ironworks, Willenhall, in the said county of Stafford, in partnership with William Deakin and Francis Deakin, as Ironmasters, under the style of Deakin & Dodd, and lately also carrying on business at Westbromwich in the said county of Stafford, in partnership with William Deakin and John Bagnall Johnson, under the style of Deakin and Johnson, as Patent Punch Steel Tube Manufacturers, did, on the 3rd day of December, 1869, grant the Discharge of the said Richard Dodd; and that such Discharge will be delivered to the bankrupt, unless an appeal
be duly entered against the judgement of the Courts, and notice thereof be given to the Court."

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

All of this Limey "Wind in the Willows" just proves one solid point- lawyers, barristers and solicitors can "muck-up" even a wet dream, without breaking a sweat-the only Punch the Limeys know is a parody magazine by that same name.

Indeed it was James Thompson's British Patent Nr. 139 of 1864(January) by which Deakin & Johnson punched their gun barrels


Engineering August 10th, 1866



http://books.google.com/books?id=_S0xAQA...kin&f=false

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have recently discovered the trade of my Great Great Grandfather John Bagnall Johnson and intrigued to see of his involvement in Barrel making in West Bromwich in 1860's.

Are there any resources that people can direct me to in terms of where I can find out more information about him>

As a newbie to this field is there any way of determining where the barrels he was making in the 1860's would have been used - would they be supplied to a particular gun company for example? Would examples of his work be traceable today? I would love to see something he physically made.

Welcome Stuchop!
Scroll down just a bit here for information on "Punched Steel", mostly courtesy of Raimey and Stephen Helsley.
Some of the images lost in the Photobucket fiasco are there
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRLZgcuHfx7uFOHvHCUGnGFiLiset-DTTEK8OtPYVA/edit



This is from the 1867 Wm. Powell Ledger courtesy of Stephen