doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Preserving case color on gun used at trap

How should I best preserve the case color on guns that I hope to shoot froom the trap line?

Wax and wipe with Ballistol after shooting

No wax and wipe down with Ballistol after shooting?

Clean the cased metal thoroughly and coat with either spray lacquer (Behlen's) or with TruOil. TruOil is a lot easier to apply and to maintain.

Don't touch the colors.

Look at blued trapguns...Perazzis especially. The bluing wear on the bottom of the actions is from contact with the hands and from draping the gun over the forearm. Those blued actions are more durable, and more easily restored than a colored action. Nothing will reliably protect the colors from the abrasion of constant handling.

The best way to extend the life of the colors is to form the habit of breaking the gun open and resting the muzzle on a pad while you wait your turn. Practice shooting an entire round without ever touching the receiver and then incorporate those moves into your routine.

Also wear gloves to keep skin salts off it

Tru-Oil, thinned Shellac,,any of the so called wiping varnishes (take your pick,,,tung oil, teak, danish, ect) They are just thinned out varnishes that all work about the same.

You're just looking for some protection so you don't have to continuously rub over the surface to keep it clean.
TruOil is a varnish too (oil,resin,thinner),,just linseed oil based and not quite as thinned out as most of the DIY store refinishing products.

They'll all brighten up the colors too,,same effect as wiping a stock blank with water or alcohol before taking pictures of it,,except the brightness is permanent. At least as permanent as is the coating. When it starts to wear, which it will with use,,simply recoat.
But case colors will wear with use,,they are just not very durable.

Orange shellac works nice as it's tone can 'improve' the look of the colors in many instances. But it doesn't wear as well as the others. It does come off easily though if you do want to remove and recoat.. Careful around the wood finish itself as some of the older guns are nothing but (orange) shellac finishes.

sunlight will fade case colors, especially if the gun is stored long term near a window. I wonder therefore if coating with spar varnish would help, as it is filled with UV inhibitors...Steve

I thought Dr Gaddy ran a test that indicated no fading from sunlight?

That is my recollection. Others have reached the same conclusion. For those here who may not remember Dr. Gaddy's work, he was a Ph.D. metallurgist and possibly the best modern practitioner of the dark art and science of case hardening shotguns.

trap is tough on a gun

I use a clear spray on lacquer on all the CCH jobs, provides a fairly good protective coat, and easy to remove if needed/wanted with lacquer thinner.

Mike

Definitely, clear lacquer is the only way to go.

Dr. Gaddy's doctoral work had nothing to do with Metallurgy.

Am I wasting my time with the conservator's wax I've been using?

The only thing that removes case colors in use is abrasion! Sunlight has NO effect! Rerrazzi and Kreighoff coat their case harden areas with a clear coat. All the old makers (Parker , Fox, LCS ect.) coated their actions. If you maintain the clear coating the colors will remain forever. By the way I was with Oscar during part of the tests, sun = no effect.

bill

Most of the observed CCH wear comes from people wrapping their hands around the receiver when they carry the thing about. Look at a dozen guns, trap or field, and you will see what I mean.

I just can't buy into sunlight not taking a toll on colors. Areas behind the balls or in front of the trigger guard typically show fading, but these are not areas that get handled. I have some very old closet queens that get taken to the traps regularly, but the colors are still new, and I thank that dark old closet/safe for that.

Ever the paranoid, I typically lacquer any new acquisition.

You are correct about that, given that his BS, MS and PhD were in electrical engineering, but he did teach metallurgy at University of Illinois:


http://www.ece.illinois.edu/mediacenter/alumninews/alumninews-win0506a.pdf

I personally prefer Renaissance Wax for my external firearms protection. I have also used Flitz's Gun Wax in the past with good results. The nice thing about wax as opposed to lacquer is they can easily be removed if required with turpentine.
Wax will not damage case coloring but stay away from anything abrasive like Flitz's polish or Simichrome which will remove case coloring.
Jim

Here we again go with this poster who deosn't seem to own any books or know how to do searches. he just about wore out the pix of his Baker and elcheapo Ithaca lefever trap guns a while bak and now he's over posting pix of two newest guns. Mate do you ever do any reading or shooting? or just get your jollies by posting pix of those guns yur oh so proud of and asking questions?

huh?

I'm glad you enjoy my posts.

This was a hot topic not that long ago. Laq thinner or acetone will remove any factory coatings I've seen. I do that and then spray on a fuel-proof poly that modelers use.

I have 30-40 year old guns that see the trap range on a regular basis and have perfect, or as perfect as they were when they came to me, case colors that require no special handling at all.

BTW - If you're using wax you best be putting it on every time you use the gun.

Dr.WtS

WTS:
Give one of the Hard waxes I recommended a try. I usually wax each gun a couple of times a year.
Jim

Cherry Bomb, a quick cursory glance at your recent posts here shows that you've added nothing constructive or instructive lately. And no pix of your guns, which must certainly be of museum quality and rarity either. Since you obviously know everything, or know how to find the answers to any problem, one wonders why you waste your time even looking at the silly posts and queries of mere mortals???

WOW! Like Keith, I just took some time to read some of your more recent posts. What a dick you are!

You can call me Richard! I guess you've let those 5 stars you got from nca225 go straight to your head.

Keith, don't make me laugh! Really! I'm sore from my workout and it hurts.

Replacement
Oscar studied color case hardening in the same manner of any high quality researcher. He did this as a hobby and had the services of a MAJOR University helping him (informal by friends).
I believe the internet came from the U of I , it is indicated to me that a guy who need to dog Oscar thinks Al Gore invented the internet.

Bill

Believing, or not believing, that sunlight will cause case colors to fade will not change the fact that the colors are a result of refraction, of sorts, that results from the surface structure of the steel after the case-hardening procedure. Science says that sunlight will NOT change the surface structure of the steel, so it also will not fade the colors. Read Dr. Gaddy's two part piece on case-hardening, that was published in DGJ, and this will become clear to you.

But, there will probably still be those who prefer to believe the myth. Abrasion (handling) changes the surface structure, resulting in the change in refraction of light and the loss of colors. I wouldn't be surprised if waxing doesn't CONTRIBUTE to the loss, rather than preventing it. Coatings, like the lacquers mentioned, protect the grain structure of the surface, thus protecting the colors.

It is worth mentioning, I guess, that loss of colors in no way means loss of hardness of the surface skin. The colors are simply a BY-PRODUCT of the case hardening procedure, and nothing more, albeit an attractive by-product.

SRH

I don't want to hi-jack this thread but back when I was in college in the late 60's at Ball State in Indiana we had computer access to SUVON the State University network which was part of Arpanet. My understanding was that Arpanet evolved out of the military and to give you and idea of how much things have changed it was a blistering 110bps(TTY) dial up service. And NO Al Gore did NOT invent it!
The U of I was one of the leading developers of CRTs and I had spent time with their development staff in their labs.
Jim

How about Clear Duracoat?
It is a pretty durable finish.
Anyone used Duracoat?

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Translation, please.

Having read Dr. Gaddy's DGJ article on case hardening, I agree with Stan that sunlight likely has no effect on the colors, but certainly, abrasion and acidic or salty perspiration does. I'd add oxidation to that list and anything that keeps oxygen away from the surface will probably help preserve colors. Also, I think certain processes may be more durable in color retention than others. I've noticed that a lot of Hunter Fulton and Hunter Specials, which I believe are cyanide colors, seem to retain a lot of color despite signs that the guns were well used. The same seems to apply to some charcoal colored guns. For some reason, even very nice condition L.C. Smith Ideal grades seldom have strong colors. Any thoughts on this?

Those who use wax to protect colors should remember that wax could entrap abrasive dust and dirt, and some so-called polishing waxes even contain very fine abrasive particles and should not be used.

Canvasback, you would fit in perfectly at our hunting camp where ball-busting has been raised to an art form. If you were here and told me exactly where it hurt... I'd punch you there my friend.

Case colored gun in the photo is a 1946 vintage Darne R10. I got it in the 1990s, and it had some of the protective lacquer over the colors that the factory applied back then (they didn't do that on guns built in the 1960s, but, I don't know for sure when the practice ended) still on it. I soaked the remains of the lacquer off in dip type carb solvent, and coated the gun with Brownell's Baking Lacquer, following the instructions on the can.
I've used the gun hard. The baking lacquer finish is all still there, and has protected the colors nicely. You need an airbrush to apply baking lacquer, but, it's worth it.

Best,
Ted

Late to the party but back from Vegas late last night. Very much appreciate Dr Bob and the Lefever fellas graciously allowing me to share their table, and fondle a couple of Optimui

Ithaca Flues with original lacquer courtesy of Josh Loewensteiner



Hunter Arms used lacquer, mixed with 1/3 lacquer thinner, applied with cotton balls



I don't think the results over time are very attractive