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2 members (canvasback, Fudd),
488
guests, and
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Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
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Forums10
Topics38,473
Posts545,160
Members14,409
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Most Online1,335
Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
WELCOME BACK DEWEY! Gracias a Dios that appendage is not mine. As I posted at the start, I most appreciate everyone's observations. My plan is to cautiously use Permatex 81756 Rust Dissolver Gel to remove the (presumably) recent layer of rust from the edges of the fracture. This might however also make identification of interlaminar rust more difficult. My personal interest is the imprint of the crolle pattern, complete with ribband edge welds, on the plastic case. Apparently over time the barrels became 'acid etched' on the inside?!? The owner would allow 'dissection' of the piece if someone here with the knowledge and skill would like to do so. I'm a victim of a public education in the great state of Missouri  , and told him that my hope by posting this thread was that someone more knowledgeable would volunteer to do metallurgical testing. Possibly I'd accumulate some smarts by simple diffusion if I moved to Utah? 
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
Care to elaborate on that statement?
The new information was gained regarding the rust on the barrel only after other people observed the discoloration.
Ya think...?... The OP's initial thread text reeks of sensationalism and is intended for people who revel in speculation, just look at the title and it's enhanced graphics. Then miraculously this OP posts "I just communicated with the shooter"-----four pages later......like I said, "it takes all kinds to make a world"........Maybe he just had a revelation....?....
Doug
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,728 Likes: 50
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,728 Likes: 50 |
Doug, I think you are being a little harsh. Drew posted what he thought would bring attention to most readers and if you look at the number of Views, it has.
I know for a fact that I am interested in this post, as I mostly shoot Damascus and Stub Twist barrel hammer guns. I shoot them with low pressure, low velocity, under 8,000 psi and around 1200 fps.
I do check the barrels wall thickness when I get one, and I check it from top rib to bottom rib every 5 inches.
The results from readers looking at what happened to the operators arm and then the barrel hopefully will help in determining what had happened and everyone is entitled to their own diagnosis.
Drew has been working with the owner and like he said, new information will come.
I do believe it was not from failure of the barrel due to previous rusting.
The question that you have to ask, is how did the shell expand in the chamber? I do believe it was an obstruction.
David
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
Gee Doug. Do you think the fella who owns the gun and said arm found my home address by internet? This all started with a post on the LCSCA Forum, I contacted the owner by e-mail, met with his friend at Vegas, we then talked by phone, and have communicated several times since. Because of the weather back east, the barrels have not yet been shipped so he could change the destination to your place. That of course would require knowledge of your full name and address. The 'OP' is Drew Hause and I live in Glendale, AZ. You can find my home address and phone # on our website home page http://www.picturetrail.com/homePage/gracemedicalmissions
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Dewey Vicknair
Unregistered
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Dewey Vicknair
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WELCOME BACK DEWEY! Gracias a Dios that appendage is not mine. As I posted at the start, I most appreciate everyone's observations. My plan is to cautiously use Permatex 81756 Rust Dissolver Gel to remove the (presumably) recent layer of rust from the edges of the fracture. This might however also make identification of interlaminar rust more difficult. My personal interest is the imprint of the crolle pattern, complete with ribband edge welds, on the plastic case. Apparently over time the barrels became 'acid etched' on the inside?!? The owner would allow 'dissection' of the piece if someone here with the knowledge and skill would like to do so. I'm a victim of a public education in the great state of Missouri , and told him that my hope by posting this thread was that someone more knowledgeable would volunteer to do metallurgical testing. Possibly I'd accumulate some smarts by simple diffusion if I moved to Utah? Thanks Drew. I'm glad to hear that you were not the victim of that failure. Even if the barrels interior were acid-etched at some point in the past, that impression in the hull seems indicative of excess pressure. Possibly an overload or an obstruction at the chamber mouth? Back when I did refinishing I would heavily varnish the interior surfaces to prevent the acid reaching them. The varnish was easily removed with a patch soaked in lacquer thinner. I wonder about the value of Magnaflux checking, what about cracks or defects that are interlaminar but below the surface?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
I agree Dewey, and had a long talk in Vegas with a smith from the NW who does lots of Magnaflux/PD exams of pattern welded barrels. It seems quite good for outside-in defects, but how could it visualize inside-out?
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 254
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 254 |
One way to check on the laminations, would be to break off some more bits of that barrel, to see if there are any old corrosion hiding in the steel. Didn't know the thing was stored wet for days.
hippie redneck geezer
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
I want to thank several here for their advice by PMs, and Gloria a Dios there is a commercial metal testing lab nearby that utilizes scanning electron microscope (SEM) for fracture surface examination and high resolution microstructural examination, and energy dispersive x-ray spectroscopy (EDX) for chemical identification and analysis of constituents. They also do MagnaFlux/PD testing. http://metl.com/services/ I suspect the only limit to what could be done on the remains is my bank account and will discuss options with an engineer next week. If someone else has a piece of pattern welded barrel that you would like to donate to science please PM or e-mail me at revdoc2@cox.net
Last edited by Drew Hause; 02/01/14 09:38 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
Just a thought Drew. I wonder if it worth sending the picture by e-mail, together with all the known facts, to one of either of the British Proof Houses. I've always found the one in Birmingham most helpful and they have been involved in this sort of stuff for over 200 years. I would be certain that they will have experience of exactly the same sort of failure. Ideally they would want the gun and remaining cartridges but I should think that they could offer an educated opinion at least from the picture. They are probably the greatest experts in cases like this and do undertake investigations and provide detailed reports as part of their service to we shooters here. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
Thank you Mike. To my knowledge this will be the first (modern) technical analysis of a pattern welded barrel failure, and should be the makins' of a good article for DGJ. I'll ask the METL engineer for good images of the testing process and SEM results.
I would very much like to compare the composition of a low grade Belgian Twist, mid-grade Damascus, and high grade Damascus barrel using EDX.
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