doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2-inch 12 versus 16-bore in the uplands

I put this topic up for discussion on another page, where it largely got blasted (they do worship 16s there). I am very impressed by some of the 2-inch 12s I have been fortunate enough to have handled, and I had been looking for a light 12 for some time before finally settling (compromising?) on a nice, light, 16 English boxlock. But... I'm still a fan of very light 12s. Do 2-inch 12s actually throw the wonderful, flat, and even patterns as they are reported to do? Does anyone know where this might have been documented?

I think of the gun more than the gauge, generally, and if I had a light 12 that I liked for its looks, provenance and handling, that's a personal advantage to me. Once you've pulled the trigger, I should think there's little or no difference between light 16s and light 12s of same loads. Worship of any gauge is affectation, a conceit.

it would just seem logical to me that a short 12 would theoretically deliver a superior payload with its shorter shot column. however, the 16 is capable of using a much greater variety of charge weights. A two inch 12 also intrigues me if for no other reason than its oddity.

I would say generally that the advantage of the 16 over the very light 12 is:

There are a lot more 16-bores available as there were a lot more made.

The 16-bore with a 15/16 oz load throws about as good a pattern as anything.

The 16-bore can be made light without having to be made short or thin to get the weight down, so will be a stronger gun, weight for weight. This is especially the case with the barrels.

16-bore ammo is easier to get and there is a wider range available.

You will have a wider choice of price and quality in 16-bores. I have seen relatively few 2" 12-bores and they have almost all been box locks of lower-middle quality.

My points are all pragmatic ones, I think.

With everything else being equal (shot payload, same type of wad, comparable powder charge...etc) the larger bore will throw a more uniform pattern. However, the difference may be negligible, so it will probably come down to personal preference in the guns themselves. Whichever gun fits you better, and you are more comfortable with, will probably be the gun you will be more successful with.

I can't remember where the information on these pattern difference is documented (although I know I have read about it before), just going on my own personal experimentation with different gauge guns over the years. I've seen dramatic differences between 10 and 12 gauges guns, with equal payloads of larger (4 and up) shot. The pattern differences between small shot sizes, and smaller payloads are not as pronounced, hence my recommendation of picking the gun that you are more comfortable with. Or, if you are able to, do some experimentation yourself with the exact loads you want to shoot.

Well the theory behind this is that the longer column upon ignition deforms more shot from the jolt it is given. Also with the same amount of shot the number of pellets exposed to bore rubbing are greater in the smaller gauge. That said at least as early as 1910 when a normal shell was loaded with a card & felt wadding with no shot protectors W W Greener stated there was no "real" advantage of a 10 gauge over a 12 gauge unless one was planning to fire more than 1�oz of shot, that the 12 would handle 1� oz about as well as it could be handled.
Along the same lines I also think there would be little Real advantage to going to a larger bore than a 16 for 1oz of shot or larger than a 20 for 7/8oz. With modern plastic, obturating wads with shot cups you could most likely add at least 1/8 oz of shot to those loads. I have had great success in the past with a 20ga firing the old heavy field load of 2�-1. I do not really expect that a 2" 12 would have been enough more effective to have noticed, unless it just happened to be a better fitting gun which I shot better, but that's not gauge specific.

Thank you Small Bore! For all the practical reasons you mention, I eventually went with the light 16. I am still intrigued with the light 12s, however. To even further muddy the waters, I've been able to handle some of the lightweight examples of Lincoln Jeffries and Thomas Turner, who made standard 2 1/2-inch 12s in weights that can rival some of the 2-inch guns. I realise that these types of firearms exist far-out on the margins of practical for most folks, but the examples I've seen were very impressive. I know some folks who consider them to be the ultimate medicine for thin-skinned birds, such as ruffed grouse and quail.

I have a Bernadelli 25" barreled 12ga that weighs in at just 5 lb. 15 oz. that I shoot 1 oz. 2.5" loads in. I have shot a number of 16's over the years and still own 5 or so and can't see where a 16 would have any advantage.

Small Bore made some good comments on the 2" 12 re. availability of ammo & the fact that bbls on most of them are short & struck thin to keep the weight down.

I do like the concept of the 2" 12 though & I had one on shooting approval that I did not keep because of some issues it had.

A friend of my had previously owned a 2" H&H Royal sidelock so had a good assortment of 2" shells from various makers on hand & in patterning the gun I was evaluating we found it gave excellent patterns with RST, Lyavale & one other I can't remember but with C&H Blagdon shells patterns were extremely poor. The Blagdon shells had fiber wads & at least in that particular gun would have been unusable for any purpose.

My point is that here in the US suitable 16 ga shells are somewhat limited in availability & availability of 2" shells is going to be even worse, so a light 16 is going to do the same job & will be a lot more practical but maybe not as cool to own as a 2" 12.

If you absolutely must have one you will be OK on shells as long as RST continues to make them available.

I have a 2" 12 BLNE that weighs 4# 15 oz, and although I have killed a few woodcock with it, I have not hunted with it enough to see an advantage over my 2 1/2" 20 bore. At least not yet.

So I cannot help you with that.

But whether it kills better or not, I still value it as an interesting example of the gunmakers craft from another era, one that will likely never come this way again.