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Joined: Jul 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
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Hi all, I have a customers model 12 12 gauge shotgun here at the shop that has us all puzzled. It had wood on it and was sent to the bluing tank and all went well considering it's a nickel gun. The customer brought me another stock and fore end that he wanted to use in place of the old tired wood it had on it. The problem is that it doesn't fit. The pump tube on this gun measures 5 3/8 and the normal pump tube and the wood he gave me is 7". Also the tang that goes into the buttstock is at a different angle than the new wood. I have talked to a couple of model 12 "experts" and they tell me that the slide tube on this is a rare one but the angle on the tang has them all baffled. One even told me it wasn't a model 12 that I had. Well it's stamped winchester model 1912 12 ga. so I assume I read that right. Anybody in the brain trust here have any ideas? Is this perhaps a bespoke gun with special dimensions? Help please.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,530 Likes: 169 |
I have a Model 1912 (Made in 1913 with 14 groove forend) and find that the wood on my 1912 is a bit different than the wood on a later model 12. The forend on the first and very early second year, 1912 & 1913, had 13 grooves. In 1913 the forend was lengthened slightly to 14 grooves. 1914 was the first year for the 16 ga and the 12 ga. with the 16 ga. having 2 9/16" chambers and a 14 groove forend and the 12 ga. having 2 3/4" chambers and a 15 groove forend. Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 03/05/14 06:31 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,082 |
oddly this gun is a 12 but had 2 9/16 chambers as well. the original forend has 14 grooves. It is stamped model 1912.
Last edited by dubbletrubble; 03/05/14 05:43 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
If you'll check the Madis book- the extra charge for bending the tang to alter the stock dims back in 1916 was $3.00- my guess- instead of the smaller "perch-bellied" stock with the modified POW grip- perhaps it was retro-fitted with a post 1935 fluted comb style field grade buttstock and the tang angle altered-- And if it is marked Winchester Model 19192- it is a Model 12- and anyone who tries to tell you anything contrary is full of Schiese- all WRA did in 1919 was drop the 19 from the Model 1912 roll stamping, thus Model 12- same gun- not called the "Perfect Repeater" for nothing either- I have 7- all made prior to 1948, 5 of them made before 1940-- As Dave Petzal of Feel & Scream magazine once wrote in Sporting Classics in 1985- "The Model 12 points like the Finger of Doom"--and he was/is 100% right about that-
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
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That could explain the tang. So if I replace the current tang with another one the other stock should fit given it was set up for the original dimensions. But what about the pump handle body on this being so much shorter than the other wood? The replacement wood at numrich has 18 rings, so if I were to replace the action slide with the new version this new wood might fit?
Last edited by dubbletrubble; 03/05/14 06:26 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,111 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,111 Likes: 195 |
The number of rings on the forend is not the problem. The length is what you have to match. The forend length was changed and you have to change with it. The "shank" is commonly bent to make different stocks fit. Put the shank, together with the receiver, into a vise and bend it until the stock matches up with the receiver. Sadly, you have not talked to any "experts".
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,091 Likes: 588 |
What year does the serial number indicate for this gun?
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Following "Eightbore's shank bending advice??" is a Fubar waiting to happen. The receiver and the shank are made from forged nickel alloyed steel - and heat treated (NOT case hardened like the Carriage bolted side-by-side shotguns Mr. Eight-Bore has some knowledge of,or so rumor may have it.
This is what can happen when some "know-it-all" type tries to expand his so-called "expertise" into other aspects of shotgun gun-smithing that may well involve both a smattering of basics in both machine shop practices and metallurgy.
No one man, no matter his background or years of experience, whether in my case both code welding of both ferrous and non ferrous and tool steels, plus growing up in my grandfather's machine shop, starting at age ten- or in the case of "Eight-Baller", growing up in a saloon setting in PA and later working for a State Liquor Commission, can claim expertise for everything- but I'll put my life-long love of the "Perfect Repeater" and both my research, study and "hands-on" ownership of the shotgun make and model I know best, and from having shot them steadily since age 12 (60 years ago now)-and still yet today. I rest my case..
Last edited by Run With The Fox; 03/06/14 12:02 AM.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,850 Likes: 150 |
I've bent a lot of M12 tang/shank,,what ever you want to call it,, to adjust the drop on them. I heat the shank up close to the rec'vr with an acetylene torch heat to red. Grab it with a plier & bend it. They bend easy. Quick heat,,not so close to the rec'vr that you damage the blue on it. It doesn't take a whole lot of adjustment of the shank to change the drop at the heal a bunch.
Then you have to re-inlet the stock to rec'vr inletting a touch when done as the top will hit before the bottom edge. Not a big deal. The entire process takes about 30 minutes if you're tired. M97's alter easily too. I've never bent one w/o using heat. Just didn't seem like an easy thing to do.
The shank is a separate piece threaded into the receiver but still a stout one. Threaded into a reinforcement of sorts on the back of the M12. But straight into the back wall of the rcv'r on the 97.
You are putting a tiny bend in the shank itself this way,,the forward end of it that's threaded into the rec'vr doesn't move anywhere. Make sure the shank is tightly threaded into the rcv'r before you begin or the heat can leave you with a wobbly, slightly loose,,but still usable stock mounting shank when you're done
A far as the forend is concerned,,seems like there was a short length forend slide for a few years pre WW2 offered on a Skeetgun or something like that. I had a 16ga in once w/one on but don't recall much more about it than that.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,082 |
I didn't mean to start a fight here by any means. Could I replace the short action slide with a later long slide?
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