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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757 |
Which is not the same as saying it works well.
English single triggers have a well deserved reputation.
Best, Ted
I am no fan of STs - only one of my guns has one, and I have replaced the STs on two of my guns with DTs. If you view the pigeon ring as the crucible for testing vintage shotgun design, a lot of Brit pigeon guns had/have STs. Given the stakes involved, it seems unlikely competitors would have requested STs on their guns without a high level of confidence that they worked when needed. What subsequent restocking and other gunsmithing did to some of those STs is a different story. But the larger point is that there are a lot of very fine , very expensive vintage Purdey, H&H, Boss, WR, etc. shotguns out there with OEM STs, which would contradict a claim that an ST is the worst thing you could do to a double. One can say that Boss has built a lot of guns. But, one would be wrong. They are still short of 10,000, by a considerable margin, after 200 some odd years. Hence, the statement that there are "a lot" of them with single triggers is a bit suspect. Given the stakes involved in live pigeon shooting, most competitors went Italian, a long time ago. While a single trigger might not be the worst thing on a good double, it's pretty close. I'd put it in the same category as porting. Boss single trigger, or any other. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,767 Likes: 757 |
A good friend of mine recently bought a 2-barrel set James Woodward and son with patented single trigger and the gun has that engraved on the bottom of the receiver. This gun is fabulous! And he got it cheap considering what it is.....likely because of the ST. Beautiful balance and just a magnificent shotgun. I rest my case... Best, Ted
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,983 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,983 Likes: 106 |
Ahhh....Ted. To be truthful, I'm hoping the trigger works ok for him. Kind of worries me too. But, the gun is beautiful. Wonderful engraving and a fantastic 15 1/4" stock. 70% case color.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
I don't have a problem (in the context of this thread where we are discussing the worst things YOU CAN DO to a double) with totally original single triggers.
I have never owned a Boss single trigger (though I do have AyA, Beretta and Merkel ones) but I have it on good authority that the Boss trigger is one of the very best WHEN CORRECTLY SET UP. Unfortunately, it is complex, some are over 100 years old and have very probably been 'got at' by 'the wrong hands'.
My preference is for a double trigger - and I would have any conversion to a single trigger right here on the 'worst things' list ...... but original triggers should stay how they are - original - and get fixed by the OEM, or suitable specialist if troublesome. The vast majority can be got very good, but I accept there are a few rogue designs, both English and Spanish.
Luckily my German, Italian and Spanish examples work just fine.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Not just a lot of Bosses, but Purdeys, H&Hs, and WRs with OEM STs too. I realize that one person's aesthetic preference is another person's aesthetic debacle, but I have a hard time equating anything that Hartmann & Weiss makes as the near equivalent of ported barrels (which I highly doubt were ever OEM on any "best gun). (I wait with dread for someone to post a picture proving me wrong on that last point).
Last edited by Doverham; 04/02/14 01:35 PM.
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,164 Likes: 11 |
gjw, In my opinion the cardinal sin in so far as British doubles are concerned is to increase the chamber length from 2 1/2 to 2 3/4,[Rendering the gun out of proof] without resubmitting the gun for re; proof! It continues to amaze me that some individuals think that they are improving the safety of a gun by removing metal from the barrel chambers so that they can insert a 2 3/4 shell. Which of course has the potential to create pressures much higher than that generated by the original 2 1/2 proof test. In this day and age,it is odd that concerns that existed almost 100 years ago in relation to shell versus chamber length are still influencing owners to make unwise decisions.
Roy Hebbes
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Increasing the chamber length on American guns isn't wise either, for the same reason. Short chambered American guns were also originally proofed at pressures lower than 2 3/4" guns--or at least those that were produced after the appearance of the Super-X shell, which pretty much drove the conversion to a 2 3/4" standard. It's likely to be more of an issue with Brit guns than American if we're talking 12's, because American 12's tended to be built stouter than your average Brit 12. But if we're talking smallbores, then you can run into problems with American guns as well. Especially 20's, and especially if someone decides that a 2 1/2" 20 should grow to 3".
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
gjw, In my opinion the cardinal sin in so far as British doubles are concerned is to increase the chamber length from 2 1/2 to 2 3/4,[Rendering the gun out of proof] without resubmitting the gun for re; proof! It continues to amaze me that some individuals think that they are improving the safety of a gun by removing metal from the barrel chambers so that they can insert a 2 3/4 shell. Which of course has the potential to create pressures much higher than that generated by the original 2 1/2 proof test. In this day and age,it is odd that concerns that existed almost 100 years ago in relation to shell versus chamber length are still influencing owners to make unwise decisions. Agree absolutely.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 101 |
How about never cleaning and lubricating: barrels, the hinge pin, hook, etc., or the opposite drowning it all in oil.
I'll also add; slamming, or worse flipping, it closed.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,050 |
Greg The worst thing one can do to a fine doublegun ... is not use it.
Good Shooting T.C. The Green Isle
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