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Forums10
Topics38,520
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 239
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 239 |
Increasing the chamber length on American guns isn't wise either, for the same reason. Short chambered American guns were also originally proofed at pressures lower than 2 3/4" guns--or at least those that were produced after the appearance of the Super-X shell, which pretty much drove the conversion to a 2 3/4" standard. It's likely to be more of an issue with Brit guns than American if we're talking 12's, because American 12's tended to be built stouter than your average Brit 12. But if we're talking smallbores, then you can run into problems with American guns as well. Especially 20's, and especially if someone decides that a 2 1/2" 20 should grow to 3". L. Brown and Roy, I wrestled with the same issue. No, I didn't end up lengthening the chamber; instead I sold the gun. Are you suggesting sticking with 2 1/2" shells? Or are you suggesting that using 2 3/4" low-pressure (whatever that means) shells in a 2 1/2" chamber is superior to chamber lengthening? Rest assured I'm asking with genuine sincerity and not poking a wasp's nest. Thanks.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 820 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 820 Likes: 1 |
Single trigger!!!!!!! Unless you are a trap or pigeon shooter maybe I don't get it.
monty
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
My answer may be 'non-typical', because here in the UK, probably over 50% of cartridges are 2 1/2" (I'm talking 12 bore).
I always shoot 2 1/2" cartridges - even in my guns that have 2 3/4 " chambers (i.e. AyA, Beretta, and Merkel). All of my English guns are chambered for 2 1/2" and I would not put a 2 3/4 through these guns. Low pressure may be safe, but if there was an accident, insurance cover I have would be invalid, since in the UK cartridge cartons are marked with the minimum (CIP) chamber length.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Another ruined gun, hard to believe it fetched 26k pounds sold used. Gawd who would buy such a thing with that ghastly trigger: 
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,383 Likes: 106 |
Increasing the chamber length on American guns isn't wise either, for the same reason. Short chambered American guns were also originally proofed at pressures lower than 2 3/4" guns--or at least those that were produced after the appearance of the Super-X shell, which pretty much drove the conversion to a 2 3/4" standard. It's likely to be more of an issue with Brit guns than American if we're talking 12's, because American 12's tended to be built stouter than your average Brit 12. But if we're talking smallbores, then you can run into problems with American guns as well. Especially 20's, and especially if someone decides that a 2 1/2" 20 should grow to 3". L. Brown and Roy, I wrestled with the same issue. No, I didn't end up lengthening the chamber; instead I sold the gun. Are you suggesting sticking with 2 1/2" shells? Or are you suggesting that using 2 3/4" low-pressure (whatever that means) shells in a 2 1/2" chamber is superior to chamber lengthening? Rest assured I'm asking with genuine sincerity and not poking a wasp's nest. Thanks. The easiest--although it gets somewhat costly if you shoot the gun a lot--is to use factory short shells. But yes, using low pressure loads in 2 3/4" hulls in a gun with shorter chambers is definitely superior to chamber lengthening. What happens when you lengthen the chamber is that you remove metal where the pressure is still quite high. And then, because you now have a 2 3/4" gun, you're tempted to shoot any 2 3/4" shell in that gun. So you're risking an increase in pressure from the load that is higher pressure than the gun was designed to handle, in a gun that's had metal removed from the chamber. With a 2 3/4" hull loaded to low pressure, you're assured of staying within the service pressure standard for which that gun was designed, if: a) You know what that service pressure is; and b) You build in a safety margin of 2,000 psi or more below that service pressure limit. Bell's experiments with long hulls in short chambers, reported in Double Gun Journal, showed very occasional pressure increases of slightly over 1,000 psi due to the longer hull. Most were under 1,000 psi; some quite a bit under. So, for example, if you know that your gun's designed service pressure is 10,730 psi--which it is for a current CIP "standard proof" gun--and if that gun has factory 2 1/2" chambers, you stick with loads in the 8000-8500 psi range (or lower). Which is quite easy to do with the 12ga in particular. And you're in good shape. As pointed out, however, if there should be some accident and if the gunmaker in question is still in business, you're probably out of luck--not so much because you used a 2 3/4" hull in a 2 1/2" chamber, but because it was a reload. I'd expect any gun manufacturer to be very unlikely to pay damage claims based on the use of reloads, even if those shells are the appropriate length. Factory loads, with witnesses . . . that could well be a different story.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,173 Likes: 1159
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,173 Likes: 1159 |
Another ruined gun, hard to believe it fetched 26k pounds sold used. Gawd who would buy such a thing with that ghastly trigger. The simple fact that it DID bring that price is evidence that there are many who don't agree with the "two trigger only" option. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 239
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 239 |
L. Brown,
Thanks for you excellent explanation above. Sadly I've seen people put cheap promo shells into short chambers with the mistaken belief that they are low pressure loads.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 459 Likes: 12 |
Another ruined gun, hard to believe it fetched 26k pounds sold used. Gawd who would buy such a thing with that ghastly trigger: An A.A.Brown is a very fine gun a truly handbuilt masterpiece made to order. No doubt it will have been built exactly as the original owner requested, not an alteration. I suspect the trigger will be one of the best. The price reflects the fact that the this is one of the nicest truly handbuilt guns being made today.
Last edited by JohnfromUK; 04/05/14 02:43 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 969 Likes: 38
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 969 Likes: 38 |
Hoarding best guns is the worst crime, both against the gun and all other shooters.
Hoarding, drives up prices, excludes many from the pleasure of using best guns, thus lowering the general standard of shotgun manufacturing. If more people knew the feel of a best gun, then gunmakers of even medium grade guns would be a bit more dilligent.
I know hoarders who own dozens of best guns but hunt with Beretta autos. Collecting, with proper taxonomy and documentation is not what hoarders do.
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