doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ripe market for small-bore doubles

Seems to me that what with a 20 ga. Nitro Special being bid up into the 600's on Auction Arms, the folks at Browning or whoever is still in contract with Miroku ought to pull their heads out of their butts and bring back a nice quality Japanese side by side shotgun. I see beat 311's at the gun shows going for upward of 400 bucks in 20 ga. and even higher in .410.What think ye, gents? Chopper

Chopper,
Absolutely. In fact, I personally would like to buy a decent quality double 28 and/or 410. SxS or O/U would both work. How do we get the folks with the ability to make em?
Those folks in Japan who make those guns for Browning, call em up Chopper. Call em. Jake

Anyone know if Miroku has a website? Hard to believe they don't have one. If we could get these damned middle-men (Browning et al) out of the picture perhaps we could get something done about bringing these guns back to our shores. Chops

Miroku has shown the ability to make relatively small runs of good repro guns for Brownchester - the 1885 low wall and high wall, the 1895 lever action, and the M12/M42s - why not a reliable double?

I think the road to Kochi is through Browning. The Miroku Browning deal was sealed when Miroku and FN bought 90% of Browning's outstanding stock in 1977.

http://www.miroku-jp.com/index.html

I think Tony G hit the nail on the head with the 20g selection of the RBL. My opinion is that the 20g of any given sxs would be the biggest seller of subgages, but still behind the 12g even in a sxs. I'm not sure whether the 16g would outsell the 28g or not, but I guess the fact that I haven't heard of a 28g organization is an indicator, although I personally don't consider a 16g a subgage in my mind. Heck, I have friends that don't think subgages include the 20g, which has become my favorite gage, by the way.

I just bought back a 20g BSS I had originally bought 4-5 yrs ago and sold a couple years ago. I'm a big fan of the BSS guns especially the 20g. I like the 12g BSS guns but wish they were at least a half pound lighter.

I used to feel that way about my 12 ga Sporter, until I shot it for a couple of days in very high winds. Worked extremely well in those conditions (maybe 40 mph+ with gusts even higher). I love my BSS 20 Sporter.

I think we've discussed this topic previously. Talked with the Browning guys about it when we were field testing the Cynergy. They said all the Miroku employees that made the sxs have retired. They seem to have no interest, nor does Miroku.

How many RBL's were made, total? It's a pretty small market compared to Citoris and Cynergys. And Tony got the buying public to front the money for his undertaking. I doubt Browning/Miroku could do that. Even if they could get guaranteed orders from a group of dealers (like they did for the Citori 16's), I think the numbers would have to be well into the thousands for them to be interested enough to resurrect the BSS.

I also agree and some companies are jumping in from what I gather, Dehahn, S&W,some Italian makers in the $2 to $3 K class. I shoot a SKB 385 twenty gage and absolutely love it, right along side two Fox,s and a VH Parker , these being 12,s. Though I own two 28s, an O/U and 1100 I am itching for a 28 SxS with 28 inch barrels. So far I have resisted the temptation but for how long is anybodys guess.The DeHahn might be a good choice as I read and hear many good reports on the gun as well as the owner, Mark DeHann. I am 72 years old and keep telling myself save your money, you need to start to sell some guns, then a little voice says you worked hard all your life, and can afford it, let your heirs worry about it.

I have spent my whole life in manufacturing very precision complex assemblies. With the equipment available today the manufacture of a quality SxS would not be a problem. I am willing to bet that Rugers problem on there SxS was in the investment casting phase ? That gun will go back on the market fairley soon.

In fact as I think about it maybe Ruger should skip a 20 gage Gold Label and go right to a 28.There is a lot of debate on there 12 and 20 O/U,s but all seem to agree that there 28 gage Red Label is a great gun especially for the cost.

To conclude I do not think its skilled labor or making a team I believe its how much can I make. CSG makes a very fine shot gun, top of the line ones to, but that is a limited market.

Another thing is the user. I was raised on SxS,s and pheasants. Simi Autos were potemtial problems when I was in my 20,s. My first repeater was a $25 used model 97, wish I still had it. The young folks today don,t relate to the SxS and two triggers. Three shots is better than two and a double is an O/U.JMHO

Well, SKB has jumped out of the sxs market. No more from them. Fausti (in Italy) is making the sxs for Weatherby and Marlin. But the country that's "jumped in" the most, recently, has been Turkey: CZ, DeHaan, S&W, Kimber, etc. They've got relatively cheap labor. Japan does not. But if the Japanese thought they could hit the $1500-3,000 niche and make money selling sxs, I expect they'd do it. Apparently they don't think they can.

I totally agree. With any company it has to be about the bottom line. The Japanese, USA, Brits, Italians, Spanish, etc just cannot compete with the labor cost and lack of social programs in Turkey. Turkey, like it or hate it is thee source of affordable SxS's today, just as Spain was and Italy before that.

Let's face it guys, the sxs market is a niche market. Toss in the independant and affluent nature of many in the sxs market then theres the 'vintage interest' crowd, the variety of gauge sizes that demand different sized guns, barrel length, etc., and the market looks pretty small for a production sxs gun in one gauge, at least here in the states.

Sad, but probably true. There seems to be a natural progression of sorts, where shooters start with pumps/autos,move to an o/u, then try a sxs and never look back. Too bad there isn't a way to speed up the learning curve for these poor, deprived souls