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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
http://www.delcampe.net/page/item/id,258708141,var,Paris-Houillier-Blanchard-Ch-Pidault-successeur-arquebusier--canonnier-rue-Royale-facture-1897-armurier,language,F.html
(copy & paste)
Looks like Ch. Pidault acquired it prior to 1897.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
The link provided by gunwolf seems to clear things up. Especially the one long post from neltir. From 1963-90, only French-made barrels used. Prior to that, frequently Belgian tubes. But of course it's not unusual to find that on French guns . . . or, for that matter, entire guns made and proofed in Belgium, but with the addresses of French dealers/"makers". Interesting.
That's pretty much been my position all along as per examples and I'm puzzled why you had to read it in French in order to believe. Post WWII many gunmaking centres were self sufficient but pre-WWII almost all could not get off the Belgian gunmaking teat.  E. Bernard  Gatimel a Marseille Looks like the St. Etienne mechanics worked off most of the Belgian marks less "Non Pour Balle" Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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Always good to get different viewpoints from different sources of information, Raimey. What I initially read in French was a description of another Callens gun, in which it was described as having St. Etienne barrels. Followed by the excellent post from neltir in Gunwolf's link, explaining when Callens used St. Etienne barrels and when they used Belgian barrels. I expect it disappoints you to find that some guns with French addresses on the barrels really were made in France, but . . . c'est la vie.  Personally, I have absolutely no problem--having seen numerous examples--admitting that some guns with French addresses were made in Belgium. But not all of them . . . by a very long stretch.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
I don't recall every saying all, but the gist was that the talent of the Belgian mechanics permeated all British, European & U.S. of A. gunmaking centres pre-WWII. Come on over to the dark side; join us.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Comparison of gunmaking centres of Liege & St. Etienne in 1866. I believe there is some truth in the report that continued for a time:   Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
Nice to know, Raimey . . . but the guns discussed in this thread don't date from 1866. And the Belgians were far more involved with the gun trade outside their tiny country than were the French. Somewhere I've saved an article by the late John Brindle from Shooting Sportsman, in which he pointed out that French gunmakers never really launched a concerted effort to sell the guns they made anywhere other than France.
And your article also shows that the Belgians were into making "clunkers" (the very lowest quality), while the French were not.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Well, one has to commence somewhere & I am cognizant that the time frame is the 1860s, and while the Belgians are out producing the French tube makers some 10:1, I do not think the French gained any ground but instead lost ground up till WWI. The French could not make any enroads as a supplier to the gun trade as the Belgians cornered the market. Indeed they made price-point weapons, but that was what the client desired. So if the Belgians are making all these tubes, just who are all the consumers?
St. Etienne tube makers in 1862:
JAVELLE-MAGAUD & SON - St. Etienne(Loire)
RONCHARD-SIAUVE - St. Etienne(Loire)
DIDIER-DREVET - St. Etienne(Loire)
J. BLACHON - St. Etienne(Loire)
A. Bernard - Paris
L. Bernard - Paris
L.F. Devisme - Paris
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
If you're only supplying French gunmakers and not the world, how many tubes do you need to make? But good to see you point out a number of barrelmakers in St. Etienne in those ancient days. And somewhat later we get Jean Breuil, whose name is among those most commonly found on the barrels of St. Etienne guns. And today we have Verney-Carron, supplying tubes to a number of other makers.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
A. Bernard - Paris
L. Bernard - Paris
L.F. Devisme - Paris
I neglected to copy the above. Info suggest that Alphonse Bernard had a shop in Liege, maybe also a patent(Damas allongé système Bernard-1854/1855), so he may have been a conduit for tubes sourced from Liege. To answer your question, the French tube makers only needed to supply say 50%-60% of France's gun barrel needs as the Belgians supplemented the rest.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
And Jean-Batiste Rivolier (1830-1907) et Fils à St. Etienne  Damas Alongé Système (Alphonse) Bernard as Raimey noted  Breuil-Glaize may have still been at it also
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