doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Midway abandons NYS firearms dealers. Edited Added

You may feel this belongs in misfires but this isn't a political rant It is about what is happening to law abiding gun owners and dealers and how new laws and restrictions are impacting our ability to hunt, shoot and enjoy our rights to own guns. It is about the further erosion of our rights that some on here say cant happen but is going on now. tightening the available supply of ammunition is an effective way of eliminating firearms use

Midway abandons NYS firearms dealers.

The shooting community needs to know what businesses are screwing firearms owners, dealers and shooters. The SAFE Act in NY has caused a backlash in the firm�s community and there are dealers and distributors who now refuse to sell ammo to dealers in NY. Not retail customers but to dealers who those retail customers must now rely on since mail order to private purchasers is prohibited.
Why is it important for you to know this? Because this company is in the business of guns, ammunition, shooting accessories and is making a cognitive decision to refuse to legally sell products to dealers who are legally allowed to buy them. Why does a business use an excuse that is not valid to no longer engage in legal trade?
Midway USA has chosen the path of abandoning NYS dealers by no longer selling ammunition to federally licensed NYS Firearms dealers and subsequently shooters will suffer.
On 19 August 2014 I was notified that Midway USA would no longer sell ammunition to federally licensed firearms dealers in NY State. I felt there must be a mistake and emailed back to seek clarification. I was sent another email telling me that due to the restriction of the NY SAFE Act they would no longer sell to NY licensed dealers who are in full compliance with eh SAFE Act.
On 20 August 2014 I called MIDWAY USA and spoke to customer service. I was told that Midway USA made a decision to stop selling to dealers in NYS. I reiterated that the SAFE Act does not prevent the sale of firearms or ammunition to dealers in NYS. The Customer Service rep was adamant about the decision. I asked to speak with her supervisor. She initially refused but

Heather the customer service rep then came on. She also stated that they would not sell ammo to NYS Dealers because of the law. She stated that there are licenses required of Midway by NYS in order to sell in NY. That is an absolute lie. She said their legal team said so. The license requirements are for NYS dealers of ammunition. Besides the fact, NYS cannot force a business in another state to get a license in NY and the SAFE Act doesn�t require licensing of distributors to sell in NY.
I asked her how other distributors could sell ammo to dealer s in NY. She said she didn�t know how they were getting around the law and said she didn�t know if what they were doing was legal. Okay!!!!!
I asked to speak with her supervisor and she said there was no one over her. I asked to speak to someone in corporate and she refused saying she was as high as I could go.
I understand that she cant change company policy but I wanted to speak to someone to discuss the misinformation they were basing their decision on. She refused. This speaks volumes of the poor customer service that Midway is now engaging in.

The bottom line is that Midway has abandoned firearms dealers in NYS. How many more will follow suit? I suggest that you forward this information to whomever you can. Midway is a large business that has profited from shooters and now is turning its back on the ones that are being discriminated against and whose rights are being restricted more and more.

This needs to be passed on and spread.


Brian Perazone
Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer
NYS Licensed Dealer
NYS Licensed Gunsmith
NRA Patron Member
Veteran

BTW: Brownells continues to sell ammunition to NY Dealers. So does Jerry's, Graf & Son and a number of other distributors. For you doubting Thomas's, here is the verbiage from the email that I received from Midway. They reference a letter from the Superintendent of the New York State Police. It has NOTHING to do with distributors selling to licensed dealers.

Dear Brian,

Thank you for your email and I apologize for the confusion. The reason we cannot ship ammunition to dealers in New York has to do with the record keeping requirements of the Safe Act. We are not able to accommodate these requirements and therefore cannot ship ammunition to New York. It is not our intention to in any way hurt our dealer customers. Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. CT. You may also email us at customerservice@midwayusa.com.


Thanks for Your Business!

John
MidwayUSA Customer Service

Dear Brian,

Thank you for your recent email concerning shipping restrictions on our products. At MidwayUSA, we do our best to comply with all local, state and federal laws regarding restrictions on products that we sell. There are certain licenses that are required to comply. We are constantly reviewing these restrictions since it is in our customers' best interest to be able to receive our full line of products.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. CT. You may also email us at customerservice@midwayusa.com.

Thanks for Your Business!

Jennifer
MidwayUSA Customer Service


From: Brian Perazone [bpgunsmith@catskill.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 01:36 PM
To: MidwayUSA Customer Service
Subject: RE: new FFL

The stipulations in the SAFE act apply to NYS dealers. Using your rationale, no distributor can ship to NY and we both know that is not the case. I would like to discuss with someone in a policy making position. Please provide a phone number for someone I can discuss further.

VR
Brian

From: MidwayUSA Customer Service [mailto:customerservice@midwayusa.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:21 PM
To: 'Brian Perazone'
Subject: RE: new FFL

Dear Brian,

Thanks for your email regarding ammunition shipments to the state of New York under the Safe Act. The Open Letter from New York State Police Superintendent Joseph A. D�Amico, found here http://www.governor.ny.gov/sites/default...erintendent.pdf clearly interprets the rules we must follow, such as that
all ammunition transfers take place in person, including internet sales, which must be facilitated by a New York State ammunition seller. We regret that it is not possible for MidwayUSA to comply with those restrictions at this time.

With regard to ammunition shipments to the state of Illinois, yes, we are able to ship ammunition to residents of Illinois who have a valid copy of their Illionis Firearm Owner Identification Card on file with us. We are able to ship to New Jersey residents and Connecticut residents if we have their permits on file as well. Massachusetts is the only other state that restricts us from shipping to residents due to licensing regulatinos.

If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-243-3220. Our hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. CT. You may also email us at customerservice@midwayusa.com.

Thanks for Your Business!

Amy
MidwayUSA Customer Service


There are no record keeping requirements for distributors shipping to NY, there are no license requirements for distributors shipping to NY.

I hate to say it, but if I were you, I'd move.

within 5 years I will be out of here. but for now I have to fight for what I can.

Sorry to hear about your plight. I wish New York had more freedom.

As a fellow New Yorker I gotta say it is absolute hell in this state.

Midway has the right to conduct business as they see fit,
Just as New York has the right to conduct business as they see fit and has done so.
We welcome you to Texas.

Bakercollector, there is hope !!
One of my Baker guns has a split in the barrel, so I fitted 28 gauge Briley tubes






Maybe y'all can find a fix for the state issues
Hope, Hope

Mike

And there is REMINGTON

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/20/news/companies/remington-jobs/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_latest+%28Latest+News%29

Does not want to open??????

Remington downsizing New York operation and moving to Alabama.


Bob Jurewicz

that they need a license may not be your understanding of the law - I thought the end user seller needed the license-

but - in midways defense- it may well be what some NYS bureaucrat told them was the law-


I had a PA dealer refuse to sell to me in his shop in PA because I would be taking it back to NY. He obviously did not need the business and did not want any thing to do with NY and the safe act just in case

Companies move from state to state every day these days. Get a tax break, move here for five years and then move again for the next tax deal. Given time they even move back to where they started out sometimes. Remington is just following the trend and getting out of a high tax high labor cost state in NY.

It bothers me when companies write off entire states for sales. Dealers already do not want to sell or ship to CA now add NY. Can MA, Conn and NJ be far behind? For those who are counting that five state combo are near 20% population of the US. All liberals with a large number of decent gun owners trapped in those states.

You of course have my sympathy and I expect that of the overwhelming majority on this forum.
I would suggest you take an additional step with Midway.
Find out the name of the CEO and draft a letter directly to him outlining the situation as you see it from a legal and business perspective.
I'd also indicate that if you New York dealers wern't worth selling ammo to then they wern't worth buying other products from either.
I plan on contacting Midway and putting them on notice that if legitimate firearms dealers in New York State were barred from ammunition sales I'd also go elsewhere for my purchases.
I also recommed that others on this forum do the same.
And a final point:
Those of you on this forum who have the attitude "I have nothing to worry about regulation wise because I just own and shoot shotguns." Take heed!
Jim

I believe that Midway's CEO is Larry Potterfield. He is also a member of the NRA's Board of Directors.

Midway is a large and successful company. They did not get that way be being stupid, so I am betting they got legal advice that led them to take the step of refusing to sell ammo in NYS.
Unfortunately.

Local FFL dealers have told me Former NYC Mayor Bloomberg had investigators trying to make Straw Purchases in other states. His intent was to turn them in to Federal authorities. Dealer I know will not sell firearms to anyone who sounds like he comes from New York no matter how good his identification looks. Extreme I admit but given the anti gun administrations in some states can understand his position. Midway must have made the same decision

Boats

new york, new york...its a hellava town...

left there in 1998...

so happy i did so. wish i could have did it in 1968...

but, a lass...

Then I guess everyone in the "Blue States" just needs to cave in to the gun grabbers. If they(we) do so they will hand the anti's the biggest political coup in memory.
Bloomberg head Of a group formerly called MAIG which I for one publicly labeled the "Maggots",and may have been part reason for their name change, have lost big time in States such as Colorado on the anti-gunner recall vote. All Blooomberg has is a lot of money; he doesn't have realistic and persuasive arguments on his side.
IMO: We have the anti's on the ropes in many areas and we need to persist and see this thru as long as it takes. The alternative is not and should not be acceptable to committed firearms owners,users and collectors.
Jim

Businesses aren't in business to fight for our rights. That's for us to do. Businesses first and foremost are there to make money for their shareholders.

Whether or not it's the technical letter of the law, legal advice, regulatory and reporting headaches or just a general chill in the air, my sympathies are with Midway. In their estimation, for the good of their business, they are withdrawing from one of the major markets in the US.

It is up to the citizens of NYS to be outraged about this and respond by insisting state legislators adjust the statues to create a friendlier environment for gun owners. Sadly, I doubt this will happen.

But I can't fault Midway.

Well said, canvasback. Why on earth would a "for profit" business disallow themselves the profits from these sales to NY if they did not feel the cost was going to be too great?

Midway just may be doing NYS gunowners a favor by making this decision. NY citizens have sat by and let their gun rights be taken away by electing morons to office. Maybe this will begin the turning of the tide by inciting gun owners "to arms" (pun intended), instead of more apathy and loss. You know, you don't miss the water 'til the well runs dry.

SRH

Well put Stan. I have to give Midway credit for having the balls to do this. Brownell's and Graf's should do the same thing. Sorry but I can't feel any other way towards the state that gave us the likes of Schumer and Bloomberg.

Someone supply contact information.

JRB
So in other words, lets extrapolate on your comment; no one should be upset about anything that happens with our gun rights anywhere since the majority of the country put Obama in office and so we all deserve what we get?

When California passed their requirements to sell to California gun buyers and dealers, a number of dealers said they would no longer sell to California. Who did that hurt? The Gun owners and no one else.
Besides which, the SAFE Act doesn�t have any licensing requirements for out of state distributors. NONE!

Your states of North and South Dakota aren't immune from the tentacles of progressive politics and I wonder what you will be saying when someone votes one of them into office and it impacts you. I don't know if you are from N or S Dakota but you have had a few liberals too, and I am assuming you didn't vote for them.

George McGovern ring a bell?
Here is form a website of Liberal Dakota politics

"If you buy the Republican hype, you believe that North Dakota is pure right wing territory. Of course, it's not. There are plenty of strong, principled progressives just south of Saskatchewan, without much hope that their efforts will be recognized, but with plenty of determination to give it their best shot anyway. A thick stew of good liberal values is simmering just beneath the crusty skin of knee-jerk conservatism across the state.

We put together this collection of progressive resources in North Dakota because we want to help the grassroots activists of North Dakota in their struggle to bring the values of freedom and fairness back to the top. Of course, there's a mighty big territory to cover between Wahpeton and Williston, so we're looking for help in expanding out listings. If you know of any progressive candidates, information resources or organizations in North Dakota that we don't have listed here, let us know so that we can consider including them in our growing index."

http://irregularnews.com/states/nd.html


The attitude you mention is what is hurting the gun owners of saying it takes balls to cave to NY when there is nothing that prevents them from selling there?

I vote in NY and have so for more than 30 years. And I don't vote for "the likes of Schumer and Bloomberg".
And in 5 years I will be voting with my feet.

So screw Midway.

His prices are higher than a cat's back anyway.

These guys have been sending me ads for some time now.

Price looks good, and they seem NY friendly.

MUNIREUSA.com

Vote with your wallet.

The real blame lies at the feet of the Electorate.

Oh, really? I just bought a 4-12 power Burris Ballistic Laserscope for my .458 SOCOM hog rifle from them for $505.00. Show me a better price and I will pay YOU the difference. Scout's honor. But, their prices is not the point anyway.

As postoak just said, "The real blame lies at the feet of the Electorate."

SRH

I'm from NY. Midway is not a culprit!! Their action, for whatever their reason, may hurt individual New Yorkers, but, it will create focus on the real problem; the "Safe Act".
NY gun rights supporters need help to defeat an unjust Law and those who created it. I told lawmakers while this, the Safe Act, was in consideration that its only effect will be to make previously law abiding gun owners criminals and little if anything to affect the real criminals of NYS. To date I have been proven right. The political "machine" responsible for these injustices is very strong and well funded. They will not be swayed by Midways and Remingtons and are not intelligent, creative or determined enough to craft measures aimed at criminals and not the law abiding gun owners of NYS. Either we educate them or remove them!!!!!
Bob Jurewicz

you can't vote for those that aren't running

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Edmund Burke

Who is it that isn't running? New Yorkers, right?

SRH

How did that logic work out for California? with the severely restricting dealer sales to California dealers?

That statement is incredibly stupid and short sighted.

California has required dealers to get a number from DOJ, private party sales to California do not require a DOJ number most out of state individuals didn't want to sell to California and didn't care about the fact that it didn't impact them at all. we are shooting our selves in the foot one state at a time and you state and time will come.it doesn't take balls to not sell to law abiding gun owners just being stupid and shortsightedness.i hope no other large supplier decides to stop doing business in any state that isn't totally gun friendly.i would like to here Midways reason for doing this.MC

Bob, we have been through this in Canada. The anti gun people couldn't care less if their measures only affect legal gun owners and not criminals. Because what they are after is no guns of any sort for anyone.

You make the common mistake that they want to stop the criminal misuse of guns.

You have the same problems in New York that you have in a State like California. The bulk of the population is centered in large metropolitian areas and they carry the vote in general elections. Many of the residents in these areas have no direct firearms knowledge and get their information from the "main stream media" which is universally ultra-liberal and anti-gun.
The only real hope in these areas is for these ridiculous laws such as the "Safe Act" is it will reach the Supreme Court and be overturned. I can't stress enough how important the 2014 Mid-Term elections will be not only in re-gaining the Senate but insuring Obama doesn't have the opportunity to appoint another ultra-liberal to the Supreme Court.
Jim

You have the same problems in New York that you have in a State like California. The bulk of the population is centered in large metropolitian areas and they carry the vote in general elections. Many of the residents in these areas have no direct firearms knowledge and get their information from the "main stream media" which is universally ultra-liberal and anti-gun.
The only real hope in these areas for these ridiculous laws such as the "Safe Act" is for it to reach the Supreme Court and be overturned. I can't stress enough how important the 2014 Mid-Term elections will be not only in re-gaining the Senate but insuring Obama doesn't have the opportunity to appoint another ultra-liberal to the Supreme Court.
Jim

We are facing the same problem in Gun Loving Texas, we are targeted by the Left to be "Turned Blue".

Arizona elected Janet Napolitano Governor.a lot of north easterners are headed to Scottsdale and Phoenix,and that's what happened to California cheap education and great weather.i think midway should consider the long term effects of there decision(i'm sure they have a good reason)mc

They will never stop. If they get your guns all will be lost. Take a peek into Gulag Archipelago. You would not want events like that to take place in Alaska. The only solution is to look at politician NRA rating in American Rifleman and look for orange election alerts. While I hate to vote on one issue sometimes that is the only way to go. I will no longer order stuff from Midway.

You are correct and it was fluke. There was great voter disatisfaction after Governor Symington(R) was forced to resign upon his conviction in regared to irregularities in a real estate investment. Even then she was barely elected running against a Republican unknown. In her time in office she almost bankrupted Arizona. When the State treasurer,who I personally know, tried to sit down with her to go over finances she got up and walked out of the office.
When Jan Brewer took over Arizona as Governor the State was running with a major budget deficit and it took her almost 4 years working with a Republican legislature to dig us out of that hole. Last year Arizona actually had a budget surplus. I actually wrote a letter to Obama thanking him for getting Napolitano the hell out of Arizona. Keep in mind: This is the same Napolitano,as head of Homeland Security, who last year declared the "The border is more secure then it's ever been". This is just ONE of the major lies she told while in that position.
We've had an influx of Californians and other liberals here for years. Fortunately this has been largely offset by those who move here for the same reasons I did. And that was to get away from an oppressive government like the one in my former State of Illinois.
Jim
Update:
I didn't mean to imply that everyone from California was a liberal. Although many are, particularly in the big cities ,I have relatives in the more rural areas who are conservative and appalled with what's going on there.

Where is the NRA? I have been a life member for 52yrs. and a annual member before that. Yes I am getting old! My point is that over the years I have sent a good deal of moneys to NRA. Where are they in this situation? I have spent a good amount of money with Midway in the past and on every order I am always asked to round to higher amount to give the difference to NRA. Maybe we need to find where they stand with this particular situation.IMHO Regards. Pilgrim

a lot of the people leaving California are conservative and sick of the way California has gone down hill. i'm going to sho lo tonight to check it out for a future move.if napolitano can get elected in Arizona we must be on our toes to say the least. i hope midway changes its mind.MC