doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shot concentrator

https://www.facebook.com/282264291796980...e=1&theater

Shot concentrators were used before choke was perfected. Here are some photos of one. I rarely see them and thought they might amuse some of you. Pape was caught cheating at the Field Trial with these in the choke bore vs cylinder trial.

Gary B. Muckel, founder of the Nebraska Cartridge Collectors wrote a 200+ page book titled Early Shotgun Concentrators and Spreaders, available for $55 plus $3 shipping from the author. Gary states the Eley is one of the most common having been made in such a wide variety and over such a long period of time. Based on Joshua Jenour's patent of 1827, sold to the Eleys, who were advertising by 1828.

This shows them in more detail as to how they are constructed. The shot was mixed with bone meal to act as a buffering agent.

Note that the blue one was for breech loaders so could be loaded into a cartridge. The copper wire basket construction was filled with shot of a size that would come steadily through the holes as it flew down range. This was mixed with bone meal. The whole was then wrapped in paper which came away as the shot emerged. The one on the right shows the outer paper wrapper with pull cord. This could be removed and used as part of the wadding. The main wad was part of the paper wrap and wire cage for easy loading. All very neat. Lagopus.....

As a kid, growing up in Ireland, I was shown how to open up the cartridge and pour melted wax into the shot to produce ammunition suited for big game.
N

Sporting Guns and Gunpowders: Comprising a Selection from Reports of Experiments, and Other Articles Published in the “Field” Newspaper, Relative to Firearms and Explosives, Volumes 1-2, 1897 discussed French "Wire Cartridges"
http://books.google.com/books?id=inQCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA304

An illustration of the Eley wire mesh sleeve


Empty wire shot concentrators
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-272636

Upper R is an ad for Eley's Patent Wire Cartridges
https://aaronnewcomer.com/w-c-eley-eley-bros-and-eley-brothers-limited-advertising-sheets/

Small bore's shell
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/firearms/ammunition/eley-wire-cartridge
"The first patent recorded for the so-called Wire Cartridge was that of Joshua Jenour, Patent No. 5570 of November 28, 1827. 'The Cartridge is made of wire, woven with meshes so wide as to allow the shot to be scattered'."

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/wire-shot-concentrators

Eley's Patent Wire Cartridge Warehouse
https://londonstreetviews.wordpress...am-eley-patent-wire-cartridge-warehouse/

I came across these ads for Follett's Pneumatic Concentrator, but can't find any articles in period sporting journals, a patent, nor reference to E.P. Follett & Co. in Chicago

April 1909 Field & Stream



November 1909 Forest & Stream. The cup was apparently a paper case with a metal base?



1911 Hunter - Trader - Trapper



This is a 1969 patent with a similar concept. If you scroll to the bottom the Follett device is not referenced and the earliest patent is 1914
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3724378

A "shot container" from 1989; "the container for containing the shot pellets comprises a container body constituted by a non-slit tube and a disc integral therewith and in contact with the wad"
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5299502

Discussion of Col. Hawker and the Eley Wire Cartridges in the Nov. 3, 1917 Arms & the Man
https://books.google.com/books?id=z44wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA117&lpg

"Eley's Patent Wire Cartridges, for Shooting Game, Wild-fowl, Wood-pigeons, Rooks, Rabbits, Snipe, &c. at Long Distances: Warehouse, 36, St. James's Street, London", 1830
https://books.google.com/books?id=rIA-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PP3&lpg

The New Sporting Magazine, September 1838
https://books.google.com/books?id=MHsEAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA150&lpg

An Encyclopaedia of Rural Sports, 1858
https://books.google.com/books?id=gouQTnU3pREC&pg=PA769&lpg

1870
https://books.google.com/books?id=9xpdAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA769&lpg

Charles Askins on Shot Concentrators, Field & Stream December 1921
https://books.google.com/books?id=UPtAAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA794&lpg

No mention of Follett's

Have adhesives ever been tested or used as shot concentrators? I ask because I once pass-shot a Redhead duck and found about ten steel 3's lightly rusted together in the bottom of the shot cup that was lodged just in front of the breast. Several other shot holes were in the breast and neck. These were reloads. Range was about 30 yds.

I am making the assumption that these (projectiles?) are similar in effect to the "cut shell" that is supposed to hold the shot all together till it almost reaches the intended target? If that is indeed the idea, I'm surprised some of these long range, shotgun with a scope sight turkey hunters haven't brought them back.

A “cut” shell
Probably still prevalent in some parts of the world.

I was going to add my article but see you already did! quite a few of those Eley ads talk about the shot concentrators and talk about the different styles and types and colors, etc. For anyone browsing, it's worth reading through. I have since picked up like 6 more of these advertising sheets since I wrote the article.

https://aaronnewcomer.com/w-c-eley-eley-bros-and-eley-brothers-limited-advertising-sheets/

I also just bought a collection of 50 or so variations of them. I'll photograph them all some day.

I went ahead and photographed my other new ads too:

Thanks, Aaron. Those are great.

Davis-Warner Hy-Power used 3" shells with shot "enclosed in parchment paper capsule which extends beyond the chamber into the bore of the gun."



I've never seen such a shell. The illustration seems to show 'Winchester Record' on the base.

"Shot Concentrators vs. Loose Shot Charges", Henry Sharp, Arms & The Man, February 15, 1919
https://books.google.com/books?id=DI4wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA411&lpg

Purple Heather, in the book I mentioned in your Small Bore thread, describes ambushing a chick-stealing Magpie on its lookout perch at 73 yards using an Eley Wire shot concentrator, filled with 1 1/8 oz No 4 shot ahead of 2 3/4 drams, in the 16 bore Nock muzzle loader. Probably in the late 1850’s.

An unusual experience with shot concentration happened to me on a dove field some years ago. I was shooting a .410 O/U and was closing in on a limit. Here's the copied and pasted description from a thread I started 8 years ago about the event.

"I was shooting a new to me Verona 30" O/U .410 with two fixed full choke barrels. I had previously patterned the gun with 2 1/2" loads to look at the point of impact of both barrels, as it seemed to be stocked a bit high for me. The patterns at 30 yards were what I expected for full chokes, and regulation was good. So, I bought a few boxes of Remington 3" loads, 7 1/2s at 1135 fps and took it to the dove field that Saturday afternoon. I was working towards my limit of 15 pretty well when a dove came from right to left, almost a 90 degree crosser, well within my range. I swung and shot, and immediately noticed a small object in the air off to the right side of the dove, and watched as they both hit the ground. Wondering what it was, I never took my eyes off it until I reached the bird. To my amazement I was looking at the dove's head laying on the ground some 5 ft. from it's obviously lifeless decapitated body. Upon closer examination, the dove's body was not excessively shot up, nor it's head. They were just completely separated from each other. I went back to my stool, sat down and began to wonder what had just occurred. I got back up and stepped off the distance from my stand to the spot it fell, calculating a distance from gun to bird in the air of 23 yards. Understand, I clearly saw the dove's head leave it's body upon impact of the payload."

For the rest of the discussion, and "sleuthing" by many contributors, read here:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=377979&page=1

What do we know about shot stringing before it leaves the barrel? I'm still guessing that in the old days before shotcups, someone would have experimented with substances that might make shot a bit "stickier" to overcome the effects of gas leakage around the wadding. I'm not talking about opening crimps and dripping candle wax into the shot like us stupid kids used to do in our futile attempts to make loads that really 'reach out".

In my realm of understanding, Hal, there is no shot stringing inside the barrel. The shot stays inside the shot cup, or somewhat "tight" against the under shot wad, until some time after exiting the muzzle. Gases are still exerting pressure behind the payload, so it will remain contained in the shot cup until exiting the muzzle where the atmosphere exerts drag on it all, and the shot cup or wad begins to lag behind due to less kinetic energy and more drag. My understanding of it, from much reading of writings of those who have actually measured it, is that all shot stringing occurs after leaving the barrel, and drag from the ambient air is one of the main culprits, and is contributed to by pellet damage, due to setback and mis-shaping, when passing through the forcing cone and choke.

Drew,

It is hard to read the small print in your Davis-Warner advertisement, but I think I can decipher “proof test load”.

Yes, unfortunately low resolution image
"The illustration of shotshell load is the exact size of a proof test load used in testing Davis gun barrels for strength. The long 3" shell is nearly filled with a special proof test powder and the extra heavy shot load is enclosed in parchment paper capsule..."

Stan: But...but...but



Sporting Life, May 7, 1910
“Stringing of a Charge”
The “stringing of a charge” a subject that has been tested and studied and thought over at great length by all shooters and makers of guns and ammunition, had a unique and apparently successful test recently in England. Mr. Webster Watts, an English sportsman whose shooting ability has placed him in the front rank of English gunners, made the experiments at Brooklands track, the famous auto speedway, near London. Mr. Watts set out to discover whether the charge from a cartridge “strings” when fired at a moving object – that is, whether the last shots, or the slower traveling shots, go off in a sugar-loaf pattern.
Mr. Watts used a big automobile (which ran at speeds of 30, 40, 50 and 60 miles an hour), the sides of which had a big iron target affixed thereto. At a range of 30 to 40 yards Mr. Watts fired, and no matter at what speed the car was traveling, there was not the slightest sign of stringing, in each instance the shots making practically a circle, the reason being that a shot from a gun travels at anything over 500 miles an hour, whereas a driven partridge never, or very rarely, exceeds 40 miles an hour.

American Rifleman, November 1979
“The Effect of a Shot String” by Ed Lowry
http://www.trapshooters.com/threads/the-effect-of-a-shot-string-by-ed-lowry.58089/

Sure little effect on shot speed. But I see that full choke strings out the shot column about five times its diameter at the muzzle when compared to cylinder.

Capt. Charles Askins and E.M. Sweeley “Ballistics of the Shotgun” series in Outdoor Life

March 1922 “Shot Concentrators”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1922-03_49_3/page/168/mode/2up

April 1923 “Experiments With Concentrators”
https://archive.org/details/sim_outdoor-life_1923-04_51_4/page/280/mode/2up

I am a little bummed that the Journal shut down. I was working on a few articles for it, especially focused around really good photography of stuff.

One was to be on some of these Eley Wire Cartridges but it will just become an article on my website instead now sometime in the future.

Here was the first page!