doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Restrained opulence

While fit and finish never goes out of style, I wonder about outrageous exhibition wood, checkering that doesn't seem to end and much too busy engraving.
Does this put you off?
Finding the right combo of wood, checkering and engraving is the thing - there's a fine line of balance here - if not, the gun suffers loss of style points.
Being subtle, is the ticket!

Decoration is like punctuation. There are reasons for it besides because you can. But this, is a particularly piquant question. Pilgrim liked a sturdy hoe; now he can't get enuf ro in his coco.

jack

Opinions being what they are, there is some wood that has too much figure and receivers with too much engraving. This tends to be the case with some Italian guns for the most part. Their guns can be overdone with decoration. I ordered a custom Beretta through Cole Gunsmithing, and I selected AA wood for the gun. The higher grades of wood were just too busy.

The one English pattern that I dislike is Churchill, it drives me nuts. While I have no problem with full coverage of scroll, for me, it needs to have some type of flowing pattern, not just scroll upon scroll.

Thorny, you strike a sensitive nerve, but, no two pairs of eyes view the same art without coming to different conclusions. The "Goddess of the hunt" type engraving, with naked nymphos chasing unicorns, or, whatever, with childs archery size bow and arrows, and sans playtex 24 hour support, usually makes my skin crawl. Ditto the mostly Italian porn that has been highlighted on several websights. Some of the Germanic stuff is simply too baroque for my taste, as well.
Might be just me, but, I find the look of a bare Remington 17 receiver more pleasing than the same rolled out engraved model 37 Ithaca receiver.
My favorite is well done French "rosace", with straight grained, but, nicely contrasting, striped English or French. I'm a sucker for Boss house style rose and scroll, as long as the name and patent letters aren't in 1/2 inch block letters on the sidelates.
I think it was Purdey the younger that opinied the wood was simply the furniture, and should be a bit restrained. Wise man.
Best,
Ted

From an artistic point of view, many guns carrying a high price tag are not good pieces of art. The eye should never stop moving and have a lot of motion. Certain things, particularly gold inlay, detroy the overall impact of a piece. Gold inlays often act as flashing neon signs, crying out for the eye to stop and examine them in more detail. From an artistic point of view, this is bad and ruins the total visual and emotional impact of the gun. Fine fold line borders usually are not as bad.

Some case color jobs are even worse than gold inlays. Some folks strive to make the most gaudy colors possible - over-the-top purples, heavy blues, "neon-loke" colors. That is OK if you are paying for it and want it that way, but from an artistic point of view, it is not good. It is too loud and distracting and breaks up the flow of the gun.

"Over-the-top" wood on a palin gun is just as bad. What is needed is a very balanced piece where each part compliments the other and does not stand out from the rest. Each piece needs to be in proportion to the other peices.

If you want to see guns that truly are good pieces of art, look at anything from The Big 4 made from, say, 1880-1910. These guns were fully engraved, had nice wood, and flowing lines that create constant eye movement. The wood was not overdone, the engraving was not overdone, the metal finish was not over done. They are very complete pieces of art that move you emotionally without having any one piece of the puzzle jump out at you and cry for attention.

For tasteless excess in carving up wood and steel on guns, no one outdoes the Germans!

I've never seen a piece of wood that was "over the top".....never.

I've seen beautiful stocks that were debased with oak leaf carvings, gold wire and mother of pearl inlays, endless ribbons and fleurs through checkering that hid the figure....but I've never seen wood too beautiful for any application. My taste runs to the most bodaciously figured wood imaginable on a funeral gun, and I don't find it objectionable on a Sterlingworth, which is nothing more than an FE that didn't make it to the engraver's bench.

If I didn't own guns my garden tools would sport fancy walnut handles.

So long as the work well executed by a master craftsman, then there really is no such thing as too much or too little or too good. Era, culture, and individual tastes differ. If someone were to offer me one of those firearms with "too much engraving" or wood so fine it was "distracting" for the same price as one that had no engraving and very plain furniture...I would not think twice. However, when a firearm is priced beyond my reach, I am never lacking for reasons why I don't care for it!

On the other hand, in terms of weapons (and yes firearms and even shotguns are weapons) there are competing and basic instincts that run deep in our veins--- form that follows function has beauty and often that means simple, straight forward design and "clean lines." However, competing with that is the need (almost pagan desire) of the owner to invest spiritual and personal qualities into his weapons so that they might better be an extension of his person and thus imbued with special powers above and beyond the unadorned and thereby more closely tied to the owner. In that respect, engraving and other ornamentation of these most personal items can be somewhat like a tattoo.

Americans due to our history can be still be conservative in our tastes and traditionally excess in all things was to be avoided.

Doug

Restrained opulence is displayed by the stamped goose in flight on the side panels of the frame of my Nitro Specials. Chops

Nobody going to mention SDH's negative space. Nothing is usually a great accent on something or vice versa. As for stamping my personal identity on a weapon, if I'd laid out 30K plus for a shootgun, I wouldn't have much "portable wealth" left over for damascening gold into the crevices, so I'm saved from eye-fixing aesthetic excess and guaranteed threadbare good taste so long as I don't get out the vibrator and do my SSN. I'm touched by that photo of Felix Funken and crew happily chipping away in a bunker under the "sheds" during WWII; elfin magic is what we want and Santa to bring it come hell and high water. I'm also touched by those nervous tappings of en bloc ogives on the sides of Garand stocks. A different sort of spur for the historical imagination and oddly, in this case at least, the godfather of Art.

jack

dbadcraig,
"imbued with special powers", thats perfect. grin.
Doggdigger.

Certainly there are over the top guns with more decoration than taste. Certain guns overlaid with gold on actions, breech and barrels, usually French but also English come to mind. There are also grossly decorated guns in extremely poor taste intended to satisy purient interests. But highly figured wood and extensive nicely executed scroll engraving with bulino game scenes don't cause me a problem. I prefer not to have checkering where it lacks function and to minimize the use of gold (if any). High gloss stocks and blueing are related to the 1957 DeSoto school of grotesque art and case colors are most attractive just before they are completely rubbed away.

LG, this is my "restrained opulence" gun. Does this fit the mould of what you're talking about.

opulence: lots of ponies
restraint: reining them in

jack

A gun must have a balance from butt to muzzle - too much of anything in between throws this off.
Less also!
Sorta like an RBL with fab xxx wood - there's not much to the action to tie the whole thing together, and the eye begins to wander.
I think the sidelock gun plays-out the restrained opulence best -there's a larger stage for more, or less.

Doug,

It's not that opulent. The screws aren't regulated. Didn't you bring that gun to Northbrook, last year?

Phil

Dude, why ain't I seed that one? The engraving is perfect! The tiny scroll looks so rich and dignified and the pattern so artfully done. It is my favorite type of engraving.

I dunno if it meets Sir Glenthorne's definition of "restrained opulence" or "understated elephants", but it works for me and I am not into gaudy. On the other hand, one little splash of gold would put it over the top and ruin it to my eye.

Glenn

LG, the biggest lockplate in the world got nothing on an Ithaca Flues. Now that's a wall Gully Jimpson could do something with! How ugly they are unadorned and how nice (according to jack) with some scratching and iterated fleurs de lis aft.

jack

Yes I did.

You can blame the screws on someone else. They were buggered long before I bought the gun. Some time in the next 10 years I'll try to make new ones and have them engraved, until then what you see is what you get.

If it aint' Baroque, don't nix it.

jack

Ouch!

Glenn

Doug-

Do you own that shotgun? If you have more pics of it, could you post them? What I can see is beautiful!!!

Lowell hit the nail on the head. That is what I tried to say in my first post-your eye needs constant movement and should not home in on any one thing. Any work of "art" must be balanced to be good. From an artistic point of view, everything has the potential to be "over the top." Wood, engraving, metal work, metal finish, checkering, whatever, must be in harmony with all of the other components or the impact of the piece as a whole greatly suffers.

Good art will evoke a gutteral emotion. If the piece is not balanced (gun, photograph, painting, sculpture, archetecture, what have you) the total emotional impact will be lower than the sum of the parts. The more out of balance on portion of the whole is, the lower the total artistic value compared to the sum of the parts.

Some people like to say that art critics are blowing hot air and can only speak for themselves. That is true to an extenet, but soemone truly trained in art understands the science and psychology behind good works, and what bad works of art are lacking. It is actually prretty universal, anywhere around the world.

BUT...there is a wild card here. Some people are just so lacking in taste that no amount of art training could ever help them. Some one who, for instance, would desire a skeleton butt plate made from Damascus steel. A person like that is a lost cause. Hmmmmm, wonder if anyone on this board fits that dscription?I better be nice because I just asked him for a favor a couple of paragraphs up this post. (this is where I would add the little winking smiley face if I were more computer literate!)

Hey Marc, you've been spending way to much time talking to Glenn Fewless. I just think that a damascus steel skeleton butt plate would be way cool. After all I'm going to make the grip cap from the same damascus and we do want it to match don't we?

Here's a couple of more Daly photos for you to see. BTW, eightbore always likes it when I post pictures of the Daly - right Murph????

Gotta go - my wife's graduating from college this afternoon and she requested my presence.

Rabbit, a big slabsided hunk of metal is not what I had in mind.

WOW! That is a very, very nice gun. Did you stock it? Please tell your wife I said "congratulations!"

BTW-i was going to add to my last post but forgot to say:

I am a FIRM believer in the idea that if it is your money, do what makes you happy. After all, that is what custom gun is about-getting what you think should be in a gun.

Btw Doug, your gun is a handsome piece.
Owd Lowell wouldn't sit in judgement of any gun - just it's place of origin - fey, friend or foul?

I think that a shotgun having too much engraving, or wood that is too beautiful, is about like a married guy complaining that his wife wants sex too often!

UNLIKELY! ....or perhaps IMPOSSIBLE!

Okay okay enough. I can't stand it anymore ! Durn it Doug, you've hooked me. Please go on and send me those close-ups of the rest of the action so I can start a new project. As I do have a really nice sans butt stock G gd. 20 ga Damascus Parker, I'll scallop the frame and lay out a pattern somewhat similar to your Daly. Guess I might just as well get another piece of wood to match the engraving while I'm at it too. Oh yeah, maybe I better get one of those damascus butt plates to (how about it Glenn ?) ------- See what you've started Doug. Ken

In my house, the mini Daly was known as "The project that will never be done". I have never been so glad to see a gun go away. However, conversely, I have never been so eager for a gun to "return to the roost". Murphy

I have to agree with Mike. In fact, I love wood so much that I recently bought a whole bunch. (I had a little bit of it back at the Southern.) And, with some of the pieces that don't work for guns, I probably will turn some handles for my tools.
I can appreciate a beautiful burl (or feather or flame or fiddleback etc.) in a mantle clock or the back of a chair or a nice little box.
Wood is nice stuff and I would never turn away from a gun and turn up my nose because the wood was "too beautiful" for the gun. But, that's just me.
Jake

Just taking my cue from some of the world's best guns - they seem to capture the right amount of everything.
Never have seen a Boss & Co. gun scream...look at me!
...and thats just the way the chaps wanted it.

A good benediction, LG. Even love must be kept in check lest it produce monsters.

jack

Its about balance, dear ol' Rabbit!
Whats the good of a glorious butt - if the rest of the body doesn't follow suit.

Just my little 'pinion, but it seems to me that the level of decoration and wood extravagance, for the most part, finds its proper level commesurate with the personality and riches the purchaser has.

I would be very disappointed if Hef showed up at a shoot with a plain grained, bare framed, Purdey. Nymphs are what I expect of him.

If "W" showed up, I'd expect something like American Black Walnut feather on a M21 Grand American.

A working class guy of modest personality would fit with a Sterlingworth.

It all takes care of itself. Culture sets taste, personality drives desire, and economics sets the limits. No reason for any handwringing.

No handwringing here ol'chap!
...and no red carpet needed for the subtle and understated.

I'm sure several of those who have read this thread will disagree with Lowell on his assessment of a Boss screaming "Look at me". Lowell, you haven't seen nearly enough Bosses. Although the engraving on most Bosses is very understated, the wood sometimes screams "Look at me." This is not to be criticized. It's not like great Juglans Regia with broad black streaks is the same as inlaid vageegees. It's different. Wood should be as nice as it can be like on Doug Mann's Daly, the ex-Eightbore Daly. Wood doesn't get much better than that, but it's not over the top by any estimate.

Your "sometimes, and although" does make my point 8b.

What we'll do is what we've done as John Barth says. I'm sort of your Main St. type on the cheap so I think I'll just go off and buy a really long-barreled, slab-sided, over fleur de lisled Fluesie trapgun for the price of a derelict SW or Pahka VH. Yeh, I think I'll do that right now. Chacun a son crapola.

jack

Rimshot...cymbal splash.

Yeh that looks about right.

jack

That Rabbit, looks like my old M37S butt stock - tho' missing the rather ornate checkering. Many a poacher, trespasser, hillbilly and backwood sorts did get to see the other end at times.
Not to mention, a well appointed deer camp down by the lake.
Those poor deer hunters, are always lost - ain't they!
That plugless M37S, earned its keep.

That's mighty Purdey Jack! What "E" is it 4?5? etc. Anyway it's really nice.

Doug

Sat at GunBroker seven days; I took pity on it altho I'd rather have had one of the "good" ones with those "personalized" comb mods or some initials that ain't mine. Gonna look good beside my 1918 4E w/ the swamped rib barrels and the Brit reproof. Never could find a good 16 ga Sterly "sleeper" or one of these in sort of "prestine" condition (as Beans used to say) until I started looking for Manufrance Ideals. There is serendipity in misdirection.

jack

See what happens Rabbit, you dottle with those Frenchmen's guns long enough and something good pops-up.
No doubt it'll look good in your cabinet!

I don't have a cabinet but being a pipe smoker I have abundant dottles. I try to keep from breaking them out on guns, especially French guns. I don't know much about engraving but I like these Ithaca trapguns sealed in the historical amber of Sousa and the White Fleet. I also feel in my bones the Druidic obsession with wude and the price was just barely digestable for a member of the Sterlingworth proletariat. To the PO, posthaste so to speak.


jack

Jack-

I have wondered how many of the "throwbacks" among us who own and shoot SxS and are also pipe smokers. To me it seems a pretty natural combination, which I will admit I have taken to the extreme to include smoking a pipe (usually one of my shorter "bull dogs") and shooting my doubles at the same time! Really quite relaxing.

I am still waiting to see all this over the top wood folks are talking about. Anyone who loves pipe briar would not likely see anything on a firearm that would seem "too much" for their tastes! Plain or fancy, wood is God's handiwork, not man's.

Doug

Speaking of pipes, I just got these 8 pipes. I like to smoke a pipe occassionally, but I have never had my own pipe.

They look dirty and some might need new stems, but the 8 pipes, pipe holder and tobacco jar cost me under 15$ including shipping, so I should be fine.

StormsGSP-

What a great deal! The pipe rack alone was worth that and it looks like your bargain includes many nice pipes to boot (several have the look of Kaywoodies). I own and smoke mostly "estate pipes" (sounds better than used) like the ones you have there, and most of the folks "in the know" go for the older estate pipes. The stems in the photographs look just find to me, those can be polished to look like brand new.

Estate pipes are time proven (if one didn't smoke well, the prior owner would have likely thrown it away) and like mine, they should give you years of good service. Pipe smoking is nearly a lost art, buy good tobacco from a pipe shop (not the grocery store stuff), and don't be shy about asking questions, it isn't as easy as it looks.

Just like our shotguns, you don't need to spend a king's ransom, but as you study the subject you may soon find yourself looking at spending several hundred dollars for a single pipe.
Happy shooting and piping!

Doug

Squat bulldogs with just the right size bowl are smooth-smoking and I alway thought all the extra wood made them cooler to the fingers. If I had all the bits I've broken or chewed thru I'd have a lot of unsightly junk with slobber on it.

jack

I am very close to my next door neighbor, who collects pipes, among a myriad other things. He has some beautiful ones. He has mostly older Petersons. The pipes I got are made by: Willard, Duke, and Medico that I know. I'm excited to get them.

But do the stems match the grain in the wood and shape of the bowl? We must have "restrained elegance." Can't have anything out of balance, eh? RCC

Charatans's Make for me, Huntsman shape. Now mind you, the real London made ones.
Those along with Dunhill's Poyal Yacht.
Very good!

Lowell-

Another piper out of the briar patch. This might be worth another thread as I suspect there are a good number of pipe smokers among the ranks of the SxS clan. It would take me an entire afternoon to go through the pipes in my collection. Charatan is a fine make, I have a few, and as in most things the older the better (Lane era and earlier). Anybody here discovered the joys of Tracy Mincer's Custombilts? They are one of the best-kept secrets in good smoking pipes and Americana.

To tie this in so it doesn't go too far from topic. Any lover of great wood is really missing out if they don't own (and use) a few the better briar pipes. Some of these briars are the true gems of woodcraft. Although in our politically correct times, they are about as acceptable in public as a shotgun.

Doug

You're clearly not an addict, LG. Addicts know it's just rip the filter out of new Dr. Grabow, pack it in and grab the Zippo. I used to have all that paraphenalia, humidor, pouch, tamper, special blend, might have had a 60 dollar pipe sometime around 1970. I do still have a two-bladed reamer for getting the tar buildup out but mostly use a knife blade. I also invest in pipe cleaners and isopropryl occasionally. I'm an old man now and women still comment on how good it smells. Are they idiots?

jack

I dabbled with pipes when I was smoker, but they couldn't satisfy my nicotine habit....damned thing wouldn't stay lit.

But I did have a love affair with "rolling my own" for awhile; and I mean Prince Albert, not funny weed. No cigarette ever tasted better and the process had a way of slowing me down, buying time to think whether to call or raise.

Bugler was also nasty stuff for makins. Fortunately, you didn't really have to inhale it; you could just let em burn in your fingers and take in the nicotine by osmosis.

jack

Over the top?

Too small. Take two:

Boootiful!

But doesn't it beg for a forend tip with white line spacer?

You know what I mean....for "balance"?

My pipe smoking started in college where I belonged to a Sherlock Holmes club - a pipe(never a calabash) and deerstalker were a must at our meetings.
Put away for years, my Dunhills helped finance my clapped-out, Westley sleeved Churchill 12b ble.
Kept a few Charatans tho'.
Storms! teutonic perhaps?

LG-

The wood on that drilling is actually pretty straight grained. The carving looks like it is right out of the black forest, but because the whole gun is very Germanic it all fits (I do agree the white line spacers are a bit out of place). The engraving likewise appears typical to the genre and heavy handed by all but the German standards, however, again the whole firearm is very true to the form...so while I couldn't afford it, I would be proud to own it.

I do have a clabash by the way, not very portable. When I smoke meerschaum, I smoke one of my pre-war Andres Bauer with geniune amber stems...great for windy days. I love my Dunhill, here is one of my more valuable, a cased set of very early "patents." As you know Dunhill was never known for the grain of the wood as was Charatan, but the early Dunhill were/are among the best smoking (although in this vintage they are all very small by American standards):

It appeals with my thumb over the scope which is there only as a utilitarian accessory for the rifle barrel. I believe that could be interpreted as a failure of artistic vision by some--OK, by me. Storms, shouldn't you be hitting the books or something?

jack

Funny you should ask. I have my macroeconomics test in 13 hours. I have studied my a$$ off. I would be insane if I wasn't thinking about summer, fishing, the cape, and bikini clad college girls... Back to expansionary monetary policy.

Nice set o' pipes there Storms!
My Charatans are smallish in the bowl - I have one un-smoked Special left in the lot.
How about Christmas pipes?

My "pre-Republic" Peterson's are my favorites, along with McClelland's British Woods mixture. I have three calabashes, Lord knows why. Holmes never smoked one, you know; that's a Hollywood affectation. Not a daily smoker any more, but mostly always have a pipe along afield or on the stream; it just seems right. Storms, that large-shanked sandblast pipe on the left looks interesting.

Lord Lowell -

Ummmm,,, let's see now:
Pipes of Ross Seyfried;
Bells of Rhymney;
Wm. Evans of Purdey;
Epic of Gilgamesh;
Grouse of the Highlands;

I think this wood-grain thread might be getting somewhere...KBM

Fin/LG-

Actually those pipes are mine! They are 1920s vintage Dunhills (and thus, the Holy Grail), and they are far smaller than the photograph.

Pre-war English pipes are smaller than their current counterparts and American pipes of the same vintage (I think because tobacco was so expensive in England in those days, and smaller pipes are far more economical to smoke). This pair would likely just make a Dunhill #2 by modern standards.

The blast is actually known as a "Shell" and the smooth finish a "Bruyere". These early Shell's like the one pictured had deep blasting that is not typically found in later versions of that finish.

I am a daily pipe smoker (one to two bowls) and smoking a pipe is like reloading (it takes a bit more skill and attention, but worth the effort). I'll not advocate the "art" of pipe smoking, as there are health risks, but as far as vices go, there are many far worse (some studies have shown that pipe smokers out live the general population). I smoke a variety of English blends.

Doug

Doug,

I recognized the Shell; I was actually referring to the one in the rack full that Storms bought. Its shape is rather like a smooth finished Dunhill I have (the only Dunhill I own, actually) with that thick shank. I'm partial to large pipes myself, but your Dunhills certainly are a fine looking pair. Funny; although Peterson's is known for curved "systems" pipes, it's the straight stemmed billiard shapes I prefer.

Care to name some of your favorites?

I always liked Comoy's bulldogs.

jack

I only know what a few of them are. Ill post about them when I get them.

Sorry Fin and Storms- my bad... I should have taken more care in following along!

Fin, I spotted that blasted pipe in Storms' rack too and it does have the look of a nice one, but without a shot of the stem, it is pretty hard to tell what it is.

Storms, you asked about some of my favorites. Don't get me started!

For the money, I think it is hard to beat the old American made pipes, Kaywoodie and my all time favorite the Custombilt pipe. Some of those old Kaywoodie Flame Grain pipes from the pre-war days used to cost nearly as much as Dunhill. American pipes tend to have larger bowls, something I have come to like more these days. The Custombilt pipes used a very light weight Algerian briar, prone to faults which likely led to the very weird to some tastes rustication on the bowls.

For the most part, each pipe will stand on it own merit no matter who made it, some have general characteristics. Older Dunhills are prized for being pretty reliable in terms of smoking quality, but the pipes are not always the most striking in terms of grain unlike some of the older Charatans (which look and smoke great). Another favorite make are the older four dot Sasieni pipes (English made in spite of the Italian sounding name), Comoy's, and there are some Dunhill seconds that if you know what you are looking for you can get very good deals (Parker and Hardcastle). Some of my most beautiful pipes are my Savinelli Autographs--they smoke nicely too. I really like Castello too. Some of the Danish pipes are very good too, my favorite there is a large Preben Holm free hand that looks more like a tree limb than a pipe! Then every pipe smoker needs to own at least one meerschaum pipe. My favorite there are the older and understated and elegant Andres Bauer (German carved) pipes with true amber stems, but the ones with synthetic amber actually are a bit kinder to the mouth. All of the above pipes I mention are in the estate and older category (at least 30 years some +80 years old).

For newer pipes I like Ashton and the James Upshall (they are English made pretty much true to the way the older pipes mentioned above were made). If I failed to mention anyone else's favorite, I apologize in advance, it is most likely because I forgot...not because they are not good pipes.

Anyone who loves to look at and handle wood should take a moment to consider the humble smoking pipe. There are some amazingly well figured grains and some pretty nice craftsmanship to be seen.

Doug

Because I drifted so far off topic, allow me to get the discussion back on track. This $6,000 shotgun gets my vote for being of questionable taste. "Deluxe 16 ga. 27 1/2" brls, F&F, 2 3/4" chambers, 15" LOP, Double Triggers, ejectors, 1/2 Pistol Grip, Leather Covered Pad, Outstanding game scene engraving. Scalloped boxlock. Very rare ivory inlay around all checkering and receiver as well as stock & forearm. A special order all factory done." I wonder why that ivory inlay is so rare?

Doug



http://www.chadicksltd.com/gunpages/804.htm

Mother of toilet seat - questionable taste hmmm?
I'd say its been pimped out - do you think they lite-up at nite?

OK after that last one it is time to rest your eyes, a Westley Richards finished by William Reid in about 1886.

Does anyone really think the factory would do that to a gun? Forget about the wisdom of putting white dotted lines on a shotgun, unless the camera is playing tricks they don't even look straight. One really must click on the link I provided and look at the other photos. As if the white dots, blued and white steel where not enough, parts of the shotgun were gold plated.

Anyway, that's my candidate...I'd like to see if it can be topped with as straight a face as the seller appears to be putting on here.

I think its like another subject that is rampant on the internet..........I know it when I see it!

Wow! What an ignominous end to the hand-fitted 3-piece forend! I wonder if it was one of Geronimo's guns? KBM

While I don't necessarily long to own a "pimped out" blunderbust, I truly believe variety is the spice of life. Why would we not want to see experimentation, and pushing of the limits on the artistic side of these disposible income guns?

I think it's not only a man's right, but his obligation to his passions to pursue his dreams of his guns or other interests. Everyone would be driving Toyota Corollas and shooting guns with only tiny English scroll if we knuckled to the poo-pooers of extravagence. There'd be no Lamborgini's or Ferrari's and no nymphs for Hef's gun. Me? I have an appreciation of the economy of a Toyota and for the skill required to cut English scroll well, but I wouldn't buy a Corolla on a bet and find English scroll boring and repetitious. I also found that sexed out gun, we had a link to, to be vulger and beyond my tastes. So what. I wouldn't deny a man his right to put that crap on his own gun and even find it entertaining that he did.

So, I find all of these guns that push the bounds to be entertaining overall. To hell with restrained opulance, that's for those with their undies in a bunch, ... let 'er rip.

I agree with Chuck. To each his own, and I also find English scroll a bit boring. Fox A or Lefever E is about right for my tastes. Some deep cut scroll, a game scene or three, great wood, and a naked nymph on the trigger guard. What's not to like?

They need to have a show on the Outdoor Channel called "Pimp my Gun." Some guy in tweed comes rolling up to the farm house in a jag, and tells the farmer he's going to trick out the nitro behind the barn door. The farmer then jumps up and down, screaming with glee, and then starts crying. It would be great.

'subject kinda drags me slightly OT to a famous (to me anyway) quote by my beerdrinking friend Junior regarding the BLM's recent activity of pushing all the old late 1800/early 1900 mining buildings down into the mineshafts and covering up the barren desert to look like no one had been there. "If the Egyptians had a BLM, they'd have plowed up the pyrimids." or the other one of his quotes: "One man's petroglyph is another man's grafitti."

Well, count me as grateful the BLM ain't a bunch of Egyptians then.
Brent

So ol'Chuck, you say "to hell with restrained opulance."
You had better count your invites to "A" list summer lawn parties then.

Well, o'Lowell, I suppose "A List" is defined by the eye of the invitee. I'm pretty sure Feinstein and Boxer won't invite me over for bangers and mash or to swat the shuttlecock ... but then I reciprocate the gesture to them ... and add one or two.

I've a fairly small circle of friends I can show up at unannounced with a lager packet under an arm and my pup in trail. That's enough for a po boy from the 'burbs. I'm fixin' to light my grill and poison some in-laws this sunny weekend. Summer's here in SoCal. Keep yer head low, I see you guys are havin tornadoes all around.

Watch those weenie roasts in the park Chuck!

Roast one weenie in the park and from then on.....

Jumping in a bit late here but for 4 years I was the president of the Hudson Valley Pipe Club (actually my title was Rob I, Dictator. President implied a democracy and we needed to someone to make decisions.)

We have several outstanding American pipemakers in the club, Paul Bonaquisti, Joe Skoda, Rolando Negoita and Bill Fueuerbach whose family owns SM Frank, the parent company of Kaywoodie & Medico. The factory is here in Westchester, NY and we have our annual Xmas party there, all are invited for dinner and pipe smoking contest (like watching grass grow).

The similarities between pipes and guns is very interesting, the Brits led the way and are considered traditionalists to this day, the Italians make much racier pipes and some consider them to be the current state of the art. Germany has taken over much of the tobacco production, it's pipes can be a bit gaudy but they all have special sized filters. OTOH the highest prices for new pipes are garnered by some of the Danish makers and in America we have many pipemakers, each showing initiative in creating their own style.

One dichotomy is that with pipes the straightest grain are the most highly prized and expensive, burl and marblecake is pretty common.

I myself have over 250 pipes from many makers including Dunhill, Charatan, Sasieni, Comoy, (old) Barlings, Ashtons, old Petersons, many of the newer Italian makers and the great Danes, Kaywoodie and a dozen other Americans, lot's of meerschaums and calabashes. LG, I have a complete collection of Dunhill Xmas pipes, both the first and second set. No wine cellar but a tobacco cellar, with a couple hundred tins aging, mostly English blends but for a lovely after dinner get some MALTHOUSE, Virgina laced with Scotch.

I also have a complete collection of Eric Nording's hunting pipes. Eric is a Danish maker who is also an avid hunter and each year he makes a pipe that is an interpretation of a game animal.

My favorite of his is the Pheasant pipe, I'm sure you can see the inspiration. It comes with me on all my pheasant endeavors.




He has many others, duck, goose, deer , boar, quail, etc.

Good thing they don't take up as much room as guns, damn things are all over the place.

5-10 years ago you could make some very good finds at tag sales, flea markets and even antique shops but the internet and Ebay has ruined that market.

....a weenie roaster for life.

I was debating whether or not I should re-hijack this thread, but since Rob already did...someone earlier mentioned Ross Seyfried's pipes; those Elksong (?) pipes he advertises in DGJ look really cool. Does anyone here own one, or have comments? Frankly I probably won't spend the money it'd take to get one, but I really like them!