doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Alternees

Weren't most of the billets (rods) sourced from the rolling mills? I believe they were more or less factories and capable of quickly turning out very large quantities for the trade.

Joe is correct. Even by the mid-1800s rolling mills were in operation. PeteM has an image of a patent drawing on his site, but I don't know the date.

Engines Of War: or, Historical and Experimental Observations on Ancient And Modern Warlike Machines And Implements, Including the Manufacture of Guns, Gunpowder, and Swords with remarks on Bronze, Iron, Steel, &c.
Henry Wilkinson, M.R.A.S. London 1841
p. 70 Part III On The Manufacture of Fire-Arms, And Modern Improvements.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0XJeF_oa3SMC
For the finest...barrels, a certain proportion of scrap steel, such as broken coach-springs, is cut into pieces and mixed with the iron by the operation called puddling, by which the steel loses a considerable portion of its carbon, and becomes converted to mild steel, uniting readily with the iron, and greatly increasing the variegation and beauty of the twist. In whatever manner the iron may be prepared, the operation of drawing it out into ribands for twisting is the same. This is effected by passing the bars, while red hot, between rollers until extended several yards in length, about half an inch wide, and varying in thickness according to whichever part of the barrel it may be intended to form: these ribands are cut into convenient lengths, each being sufficient to form one-third of a barrel...

Drew, somewhere around here I have a woodcut of a 18th century rolling mill. I suspect they have been around a lot longer than commonly thought. Will try to find it.

Not the one I was thinking of but this early rolling mill is from the late 18th century and similar to the one used by Paul Revere. Notice it appears to be water driven and I imagine the cog wheel is wooden. The level of sophistication in industry during the 18th century amazes me.

Not a rolling machine, but for mechanized twisting
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20heuse%20riga%20gb.htm

The 1888-1890 Birmingham Proof House Trial included several "Machine Forged" pattern welded barrels
https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowle...TEK8OtPYVA/edit

Joe, I'd guess you are correct that the 18th century mill was water wheel driven, but I think the larger drive gear is part of a very old technology that is being reintroduced as "new and superior". Google Tsubaki Pin Gear, or just Pin Gear and you'll see what I mean.

As they say, "nothing new under the sun."

The coupling of the rolling mill stand to the slitter stand suggests that even this mill process had evolved over time from something even simpler.

"Venus at the Forge of Vulcan", Jan Brueghel the Younger of Antwerp, Belgium c. 1605



Fellas on the right are using water wheel powered grinding stones and (foreground) trip hammers

A thread from the early days of our Damascus research with several images posted by PeteM, including fellas holding rods fresh from the rolling mill
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&PHPSESSID=

Tough to tell, but this may be a rifling machine. That twist on the bottom looks fixed to a gear and may be a way to move the work along the carriage. Nothing on the setup look 'quick release' to get hot work on and off before it cools to unworkable. Just wondering, appreciate that uncover these records.

Steve and others: I think you may be overestimating the time required to make a barrel if you are assuming that only one barrel was being forged at a time. I believe that more time is required for heating the metal to welding temperature than the time available for hammering before the metal cools below welding temperature, so I would expect that for efficiency, work would be carried out on more than one tube at a time, with one or two in the fire heating while one was being hammered. I was fortunate to heve grown up in a small town with an old time, 3rd generation blacksmith, and watched him for many hours, so I have a good idea of the processes, and that is what I base my comments on.