doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Identifying a Churchill action and Ejector Style

I recently put up my SA Leonard Birmingham sidelock ejector SXS 12GA for sale on Gunbroker. I have had several questions about the gun that I can't answer. I was asked who made the action and what style the ejectors. I was told by a recognizable authority that the action appeared to be from Churchill. How can I be sure? Another customer wanted to know the type of ejectors. I wonder if anyonce can tell from my photos. I can take some more photos of the underside of the fore end and the ejectors if that helps. Finally, I was asked about the numbers 316 in the circle on the underside of the breech end of the left barrel. Can anyone help with that? I'm posting a photo of the number, a link to the photo album and a link to the auction. If anyone from here buys it I'll knock off $100 from the final price and give Dave his due, of course. Incidentally, SA Leonard was mentioned in Michael Petrov's book on 20th Century Custom Gunmakers. He started in England and emigrated to the US and continued to make guns here.

Thanks.

Allan


Slideshow: http://s396.photobucket.com/user/Vol423/slideshow/S%20A%20Leonard%20English%20Sidelock%20Game%20Gun

Gunbroker auction:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=467572511

I'm pretty sure that gun is all Leonard, all Birmingham. I believe that 3-digit number of the flat of the action (316?) is Leonard's mark.

The gun looks like a typical H&H-style sidelock. Probably has Southgate ejectorwork (although I would need to see the inside of the forend to confirm).

http://www.hallowellco.com/ejectors_and_extractors.htm

I doubt any of it was originally made over here - although the gun may be restocked, and that may have been done by an American.

OWD

I just pulled out my 1931 EJ Churchill "Field Model" to compare your pictures with. While it is certainly is very much "in the style" of a Churchill Field, (almost a direct copy, cosmetically!) with similar proportions, furniture design and engraving patterns, there are a number of significant differences that can be seen with the locks on, and the action concealed.The lock pin layout is different from any grade or model Churchill I have seen, the front trigger plate pin is further aft in the action, the lever pin is also further aft on the action, the safety slide is of a different design, and there is no hidden third bite. As well, the engraving, while almost a direct copy, is somewhat coarser.
I checked Masters book on Churchill, and SA Leonard is not listed in any of the company craftsmen, or outworkers, either in the Acton or Birmingham shops.
Heres a link to the auction pictures of my gun, for comparison.
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-1245-e-j...ith-case-47796/
All said, it looks a very nice gun, and I wish you well with the sale.

Very nice gun, Roalco!

Interesting that neither gun has chopper lump barrels. One characteristic of a Churchill gun is the unique rib, as seen on Roalco's gun.

Thanks, it's a lovely little XXV, with slightly heavier barrels (originally ordered as a 3" chamber, but finished as 2 3/4", according to build records) than normal, so has incredible balance and swing. It was built for an American fellow on the east coast.
AFAIK, only the Premiere side locks, and some Hercules box locks had chopper lump barrels in the Churchill line.
The rib is interesting, originally only on the XXV's, I have seen it on longer barrels. Seems to work for me.
Old Robert C had some interesting ideas on bird shooting technique and gun style! The controversy is still active almost 100 years later...

I added five photos of the fore end to the album and the GB listing. Here is one:

Ejectors are classic Southgate. Holland & Holland used the same mechanism for their later guns and dubbed it the 'AB Ejector' because of having only two parts involved on each side.

I very much doubt that the gun came from the Churchill workshops. If so it would be engraved with their own name, not Leonard. I don't think there is any evidence that they did work for other members of the trade, in fact their guns were bought in from the trade and they only tended to stock and finish them.
An understanding of how the UK gun trade worked (and to a large extent still works) shows that a majority of the work is done by 'outworkers' outside London where the wages and overheads are considerably lower.
It makes no economic sense paying London wages and workshop rents to do what can be done equally well in the provinces. Only jobs associated with finishing: stocking, engraving, screwing etc could be done economically in the Big Smoke for the majority of makers and even here guns were often fully finished for the sales rack in Birmingham etc.

Typical mid range Birmingham side lock . Southgate ejectors . Churchill it is defiantly not . They would not have made a gun with a cam type lever . As there were numerous firms in Birmingham making guns of this type when this was built who actually made it would be guess work at best unless there is a recognisable makers mark somewhere on the gun .
Boothroyd dose not list a Leonard in Birmingham for the time this gun was made but thats not to say there was not one possibly them only having a warehouse rather than a "factory" as did many other companies dealing largely for export .