doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Build Quality and Union Armera vs Grulla Armas

A friend of mine owned a wonderful 28 gauge Arietta for a short time. He bought it used and I believe it was originally built for Argentina. 30" barrels, double triggers, slim semi-beavertail forend and relaxed round knob grip. It weighed 7 lb even and was absolutely wonderful for targets and doves. The frame was significantly wider than one of their 20 gauge game guns that went 6 lb. I was cash poor when he traded it away. I know where it is and would love to own it. Maybe someday.
Regards,
Jeff

On that same thread, here is an interesting gun that just sold on Gun Broker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=471776354

VS model 4, in 20 gauge. 20 gauge barrels usually weigh about 1250 grams, give or take 100 - 200 grams depending on barrel length and type.

The barrel weight of the above gun is 1730 grams. Something is up with that gun.

Here is another VS model 4, for reference:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=468965385

Another beautiful sidelock made by an obscure Spanish house. A Beristain Sidelock extractor 12 double;

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473311576

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473994954


And a perfect weight for a 12 gauge game gun. Holy smokes just looking through Gunbroker and you can go on and on with these obscure Spanish gems!!

You, sir, have a good eye.

There were (at least) seven people associated with the name Beristain involved in the gun trade during the period early 1700s - late 1900s and I have yet to unravel what connections may have existed between them. By the early 1900s we seem to be down to just two Beristains; "Beristain y Cia" and "Beristain, SA".

The two guns linked above are Beristain, SA.

Beristain, SA appears to have been only a retailer and not a gun maker. The gun in GB auction # 473311576 was made by Industrias Ilja (maker mark LI) and has slightly more hours of skilled hand labor in its production than the other gun. The other gun, GB auction # 473994954, was made by Armas Parkemy (maker mark A. P. M.). The LI is an extractor gun; the APM an ejector gun.

To put these guns into the perspective of today�s market, both have more skilled hand labor in them than does a current production AyA No. 2, and if produced today would sell at a higher price point Than a No. 2.

At a thousand dollars, each of these guns is a good value.

"To put these guns into the perspective of today�s market, both have more skilled hand labor in them than does a current production AyA No. 2, and if produced today would sell at a higher price point Than a No. 2."

Really???? Maybe in fantasyland!

"Beristain, SA appears to have been only a retailer and not a gun maker. The gun in GB auction # 473311576 was made by Industrias Ilja (maker mark LI) and has slightly more hours of skilled hand labor in its production than the other gun. The other gun, GB auction # 473994954, was made by Armas Parkemy (maker mark A. P. M.). The LI is an extractor gun; the APM an ejector gun."

Interesting stuff Kyrie gives us more!!!

A sweet handling, hand built sidelock for $1,000.00. Nothing being offered on the market today can compete with that.

they are good values, yes.... but just because they have more hand labor in them, doesn't mean they are higher quality. Sorry but they dont come close to an AYA #2

I think, at the moment, there are four top end, or near top end, guns out there at almost reasonable prices:

Laurona:

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/13124950/

Armas Ego:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/ARMAS-E...un_id=100523880

Arrieta. Back in the day this gun was made it was the top price point gun Arrieta offered. The reason we don't see that engraving pattern any more is it became so expensive to do no one could afford to have a gun made with it. I suspect the skills needed to execute that pattern are now extinct.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/ARRIETA-BEST-QUALITY-SXS-12-GAUGE.cfm?gun_id=100532739

This is a near top end Ugartechea (model 116):

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=473273169

The only reason I haven't bought that gun is I already have a model 16 in 12 gauge.

I suspected this would stir up Adam and Greg, as they are the quintessential of the �buy the name, not the gun� buyers. They find my views, well, let�s just say �exciting.�

�Quality�, in my usage, is a shorthand term used to describe the relative amounts of skilled hand labor that went into the production of two or more guns. If I remark that gun A is a higher quality gun that gun B, I�m opining that gun A was more expensive to produce than gun B, and would have sold at a higher price point due to production costs.

I�m using the word quality as a term to describe the single largest quantifiable factor that determines the relative costs to produce two or more guns, and the relative price points of the guns as determined by cost of production.

The LI and APM are higher quality guns than the AyA No.2, as the AyA no. 2 is produced today. The AyA No. 1, OTOH, beats both the LI and APM hands down.

You sir are exactly right concerning my position at this time. The discussions here have been very helpful, and served to reinforce my interest. I definitely am aiming for a used Spanish gun, medium weight. I would like to use it for both sporting clays and field. I still have a long way to go however in being able to descern btwn mediocre and well made guns without having in my hands. Unfortunately that is also the biggest stumbling block for me, because my home area does not have many offerings of anykind of SXS I could see and handle. I am left relying mostly on the internet for my searching. At least I have a skilled and reliable gunsmith who was trained and certified by the English that I can send anything I might buy for proper inspection and evaluation.