doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Alkanet Root - Reddish Stock Look

The new buttpad changes a lot as well - consider that to be a color/texture point for development. I would also go with additional finish, darker, and relatively glossier or having more semi-sheen. On my screen it looks a bit anemic as if the job were yet to be completed.

F.S., totally agree, the job is yet to be properly completed.

All guidance will be dearly appreciated!

Ingredients aren't that assorted (Minwax Tung Oil, boiled(?) linseed oil, Minwax Stains (Walnut, Mahogany), French polish, red and black shoe stains (water soluble).

JC(AL)

Jaycee,
Is that a list of what you used? Or are you asking for directions?

Salopian, its a list of what I have at hand.

I am asking for directions,

JC(AL)

So here is the story on madder dye. I tried assorted net searches and got nowhere as regards local suppliers. This info came from a supplier whose upload inquiry form I was unable to complete for some odd reason. If you think you are going to find "madder sellers" in a net searcdh, don't. Unless, of course, there is time to do a lot of weird reading on yarns, dye history, etc. Ebay had not the dye so much as dyed yarns. Anyway:

"...the root contains rubian, rubiadin, ruberythric acid, purpurin, tannin, sugar and especially alizarin. Pseudopurpurin yields the orange dye and xanthopurpurin the yellow. The astringent taste, slight color and red color, are imparted to water or alcohol.

The most interesting of the coloring substances is the alizarin, and this is now termed dihydroscyanthraquinone. This occurs as orange-red crystals , almost insoluble in water, but readily soluble in alcohol, ether, the fixed oils and alkaline solutions. The alcoholic and aqueous solutions are rose-colored, the ethereal, golden-yellow, the alkaline, violet and blue when concentrated, but violet red when sufficiently diluted. A beautiful rose-colored lake is produced by precipitating a mixture of the solutions of alizarin and alum.

Alazarin was recognized by Graebe and Liebermann, in 1868, as a derivative of anthracene - a hydrocarbon contained in coal tar, and in the same way they elaborated a method for preparing it commercially from anthracene. Upon this arose rapidly a great chemical industry, and the cultivation of madder has, of course, decreased correspondingly until it may be said the coal tar products have entirely displaced the natural ones"

Note that alcohol, oils of an unspecified type, ether or alkaline solutions dissolve alizarin (also known as dihydrocyanthraquinone) which are the red-orange crystals and make them useable for dye purposes in that color range.

I don't know what they mean by alkaline solutions but this might be something from the process of leaching ashes to produce soap ingredients. This is basically lye. Though oils of whatever type in the 19th century are likely to be determined by reading about gunstocks, the readily available solution for alizarin is likely thinned lye. If "alcohol" means the stuff one could drink no proper Englishman would use it for that purpose unless for a special client who would be told of the use of his favorite gin in the mysterious mix.

The main issue is to find madder. A large art school or university or an art museum with classes is likely your best bet as the net offers confusion. This is not exactly a common bulk home maintenence product.

"well naturally" in British Columbia has a lot of madder's root. If you order today Mary will ship to you by the end of the week here in US.

I read on this post the other day that madder's root would not disolve spirit-based solvents or oil without heat, only water. I have 4 different types of alkanet root oil mixed up and aging roght now. I mixed another batch and substituted madder's root powder for the alkanet root. The color is much different than the alkanet and has an orange tint to it. It also never completely dissolves and the solids settle out even with a lot of agitation. It looks kinda like the water that separates off of ketchup.

I am going to mix up some in water and see how it looks. I don't want a water-based stain, but I do want to see what color I can get.

Kinda been there done that. I tried to order alkanet root from "well naturally". They wouldn't take phone orders and told me I had to order online. So I went online and found they have a $20 minimum order. I got my wife to go through all the other stuff they have to see if she could find something of use to bring the order to $20. She found a few things she thought she might be able to use and the order was placed. A week or so later the package arrived, less the alkanet root with a note stating "re-order". So now I have, with shipping, about $20 worth of weeds that we didn't really want and no alkanet which was really all we wanted. In hindsight I should have just ordered enough alkanet to make the minimum order and then I would either get lots and give the surplus to someone else to make stain or I would have got nothing and would have cost me nothing.

Cody

I would call her and tell her what happened and then ask her to sell and ship you just madder's root, as you already made an order over $20 and did not get what you need. I spoke to her twice and she was very helpful with everything. Wouldn't hurt to try

I had an enquiry today that got me thinking.How many of you boil your ingredients all together and how many boil the oil and then add the thinners?
Also what percentage of driers have you / do you use?
Finally you do have to leave the root in the oil to get best results and wait a month or two.

I heated it all together, but never to the boiling point. I never considered adding anything later as an option thinking homogenized mix with the heat would be better.