doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca Co vs Ithaca Gun Co.

Are there any photos available of the lug change? Does it match the barrels in question?
I now believe these barrels to be "fake" as well. But I am being denied the right to return them for a refund on my purchase.

These barrels are plainly not for ANY American-made gun, period, end of story, regardless of the engraving or the story that goes with them.

If it's a dealer that's refusing to honor your request, I would suggest that you tell everyone here his name. He's either unethical or completely ignorant of what he's selling.

The seller is not a dealer, but is a collector with a very extensive and expensive collection.
I made the purchase based on his reputation and "sales pitch" that these were the real deal and only ones in existence. I have been strung along by him ever since my initial call to him after receiving the barrels, asking to return them. Now he won't answer my calls, or hangs up as soon as he realizes that it is me calling.
Is there any recourse other than small claims court? I understand that this is not a large enough value to involve an attorney. We are talking $3500+
I am open to any advice from others that may have been involved in a situation similar to mine.

Fred I missed it if you disclosed what you paid for the barrel set. It seems clear that you didn't get what you thought you were getting, but whether the seller knew or not likely cannot be proved. If the money is not sufficient to pursue with a lawyer, it just isn't worth pursuing. Disclose the seller here for the benefit of the rest of us, and chalk the whole experience up to tuition...Geo

I see where you amended your last post and disclosed what you paid for the barrel set. That's some pretty strong tuition. Forget small claims court. I'll stick to the advice I offered above.

Re small claims court: you could probably do it yourself if you have the time and the inclination.
A couple things to consider:
1. was the transaction interstate? This raises 2 issues:
a. You might have trouble hauling the seller into court in your home state, i.e., a jurisdictional issue.
b. How gun-friendly is your jurisdiction? If it's friendly, then it might make more sense bringing him into court than if it's not friendly. In an unfriendly jurisdiction, you can be sure the judge will find a way to f'k you over and make you lose the suit, at a minimum, or try to have you incarcerated (for bringing a gun to the courthouse) at the outside. The judge might also be ignorant of the law on private sales of parts and, indeed, what constitutes a "firearm"; explaining that the law makes only receivers firearms (under federal law - your state's law may vary) is likely to be too much of a mental stretch for the person wearing the robe. Small claims judges' attention is most centered on moving cases, not on fine legal points.
2. You'll need an expert to give testimony that "these are not genuine", i.e., the subject of this thread. While a letter from a recognized expert might do, you cannot be sure the judge will not require live testimony from your expert. Shipping experts around gets expensive and their time, moreso.
3. If you're going to send a letter demanding the seller undo the transaction - which appears to be all you really want - be careful in how you phrase it. Threatening to sue, to haul him into court can, depending on the jurisdiction, be construed as extortion. That depends on how the state writes its laws on that subject. Probably best to say something along the lines of "I've contacted recognized experts in the field and they are uniform in advising these barrels are not what you said. I propose we undo this transaction and both walk away wiser." Send it certified with a copy by regular so he can't later say "I never got any such letter". (They always do that.)
4. Be prepared to have him call any bluff you might make.
5. If you decide this is too much like work, then it's best to write it off to experience. Further, to get someone to eradicate the offending text on the barrels so no one else suffers. Whether you want to tell who the seller was is your call. I'm glad I'm not in your shoes - I don't know whether I would or not. YMMV.

3500 for barrels that carry all their value as remelt is a pretty stiff lesson...he figures he got 3500 for something he pulled out of a barrel at some gun show years ago and hes not giving it back.....Id have to go after him ....

but he's not the first collector, author, authority, to wright their own history on their goods....

Wow!
3500 dollars is far too much to simply chalk up to "education".
If he doesn't make good, I'd make certain that everyone knows his name.

Walter and Daryl are right on target. Those barrels are a pretty darned close match to those on my Grade 40 Sauer 16ga, from 1909-1910.

I'd venture many of us have a pretty good idea of who the seller is anyhow...Geo

The seller is in Florida, I am in Utah.
I have been looking into small claims court in Florida. I believe that the transaction would be considered to have taken place in Florida.
I would FAR prefer to settle this with the seller without court or blasting his name across the internet.
He told me that he purchased these in a group of items at a gun auction. He did not pay a premium for them for being the "only known set". Had they been what he advertised, I would have been happy to invest in them, creating a .410/28 ga grade 2 Ithaca Flues. Because they are not, I feel burned and taken.
If I were to change places with the seller, and I became aware that they were counterfeit, I would immediately attempt to make it right. To make, and keep that kind of profit knowing that they are fake is just plain wrong. Unfortunately I don't believe that he sees it like I do.
When I have attempted to call him to fully explain the situation, he hangs up on me.