doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com in the wood vs. built up finishes

Dave,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're asking whether it would be OK to apply the Waterlox Satin Oil over an existing gloss finish, or over another finish that you have on hand and want to use up? More a matter of convenience and economy as opposed to some practical reason for combining finishes? I'd say, as long as your first finish is oil-based and not polyurethane or lacquer it should work fine.

Waterlox is a blend of urethanes and tung oil. Practically all the commercial formulas we use for gunstock finishes are blends of synthetic urethanes and natural linseed or tung oils. On occasion, I've lightly sanded an existing oil finish and top coated with a different oil finish. In particular, I'd wager Tru-oil, ProCustom, Permalyn and Waterlox would bond well with each other. I've mixed and matched a few times with good success. In fact, the only use I'd have for boiled linseed oil would be as a cosmetic top coat after making sure the wood was completely sealed with one of the commercial blends.

To the BB at large;

I may have given the impression that Waterlox is the Holy Grail of finishes, that it will magically give the perfect result without effort. If so, I apologize, because it ain't so. There are no shortcuts to a beautiful oil finish on a gunstock....but there aren't any "secrets" either. The techniques I use are well documented and in the public domain. Years ago, I bought a video from Brownells by Joe Balicki, a well respected pro who loves Permalyn. When I bought a bottle of Pilkingtion's Classic oil finish from Brownells, it came with a neat little instruction booklet. Pete Hiatt has an excellent article right here on this site...
http://www.doublegunshop.com/phiatt3.htm

All of these sources and others give details of the very same approach I use. With proper technique any of a half dozen products will give good results, and choosing just one is largely personal preference.

I'd like to hear from anybody who tries Waterlox, especially if they already have experience and a strong preference for one of the other popular brands. I know one pro who is a fan of Permalyn and tried Waterlox sealer on my recommendation. He didn't switch. He couldn't tell me why not, he just saw no good reason to change.

Thanks Mike. The only reason I saw to combine was if you wanted to build up some finish, wanted the satin finish, but didn't want the cloudiness you mneitoned to be as much of an issue. Sounds like overthinking it to me, but I heard mention from some others about using different finishes at various points in the finishing of a stock.

Kind of big area covered by generic term oil. Seems to me that most lubes (the ones that go in the end-grain at the head of the stock) are petroleum distillates and have been since John D. struck Pennsylvania Light. Tung and linseed are plant resins aren't they? I agree with OB and Chuck that there is a big difference between sealing wood and filling grain and marinating the stuff under pressure. And filled grain, be it with deposits of rottenstone, Silex, or cured finish isn't in the wood; it's in depressions in the wood.

jack

Jack you're a clever, sensible bugger you know? I bet your wife gives you hell? Always find your replies knowledgable.

Never been accused of any of that before, Sal. Probably getting better at disguising my ignorance as olfart wisdom? My wife knows I wilt under pressure and just gives me heck.

Insomia has reminded me (we are somewhat west of the islands and Mr. Sun hasn't arrived yet)of a story that Douglas Adams, creator of the Hitchhiker's Guide, told in the posthumous Salmon of Doubt. Seems he was in a train station in York with time to kill so he buys a cuppa, a newspaper, and a packet of cookies. He's got his nose in the paper when another gent sits down but he notices peripherally when this one opens the packet of cookies and eats one. At a loss what to do now, he also reaches for one. The opp number takes another, Adams takes another. There are only eight cookies but the time it takes to eat them is excruciating. The other gent then rises; Adams and he exchange a look of mutual excoriation. With the embarassing cadger gone, Adams discovers his packet of cookies under the newspaper. He thinks that somewhere in England is a man with exactly the same story as his but without the punchline.

jack

addendum later that same day: Is that "coaching" as in coach+6, Dalmation and Bouvier, footman and horn? Know it can't be softball.

Jack,
I don't want to be accused of hi-jacking this thread, talking on the cheap to pen-pals.
Coaching = Instructing Gentlefolk in the art of wingshooting.

I wouldn't worry overly about it. Some of the best & brightest have walked all over some of mine with memoirs des muscle cars. Course they use the gimmick of the analogy as in "That's analogous to . . ." or "It's sorta like . . ." There are some differences between gentlemen and downy-feathered chicks, don't ya know.

jack

OK, so what should I call these finishes? "built up" and "non-built up"? I use the terms I've seen others use in print, so if there is a most correct term that will aid in others understanding my foolish questions, I'm all ears.
Thanks.

Dave, "in the wood" and "on the wood" have a rough and ready correspondance to our thinking about finishes with few solids and driers vs. a catalyzed wonder poison which you can spray, cut down once, and then "hang" on the surface with a very fast build per coat. Our little quibbles about depth of penetration aren't with you. I have no idea how you get an "ultrathin" finish. Can't imagine anything much thinner than BL and beeswax.

jack