doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stock Refinishing

I was reading the stock finishing thread in the DIY forum. The importance of filling the open pores of the wood kept coming up. I am starting my first project (actually re-starting) and plan to use Tru-oil. I have stripped, degreased, removed dents and cleaned with acetone and I am now ready to apply the Tru-oil. I planned to dilute the Tru-oil (25/75, 50/50, 75/25) for the first three coats and wet sand with 400 grit sandpaper. I will then continue to apply multiple light coats (not diluted) and progress up to 1500 grit sandpaper.

1) Will diluting the Tru-oil fill the open pores of the wood?
2) Should I dilute the Tru-oil with water or mineral spirits?
3) Would I still dilute the Tru-oil if I apply stain first (I want to try the Behlen Blood Red stain)
4) It was suggested to buff the stock after about 40 minutes and then leave it for 24 hours to dry. Should I do this if I am wet sanding after each coat?

Or am I way off track altogether?

Thanks in advance,
Patrick

Dilute with mineral spirits.Some walnut is more open grained than others. Bobby

I usually don't dilute Tru-Oil,but let it dry completly and take it down to bare wood(I use steelwool on open areas and backed up fine abrasive paper near corners,etc).After cleaning with a tackcloth,the open pores can be seen.Repeat as many times as necessary to fill all pores(the finish is in the wood).Then you can do any final finish you like.I usually just rub one coat of boiled linseed oil and if it gets spotted or scratched in use,buff it up with steelwool and rub on oil again.
Mike

The wet sanding on the first few coats will do most of the grain filling for you. If you are using just Tru Oil, I would recommend thinning it for these filling coats. Or you can use a thinner penetrating sealer wet sanded in to fill and the. Apply straight Tru Oil.

I'm curious.
Has anyone here had finish delamination or excessive flaking after having laid down base layers with thinned tru-oil?

Manufacturers recommend against it, yet it is commonly done.

Tis possible they are foc.

I have some stocks I finished with tru Oil nearly 45 or so years ago and they still look good. Bobby

I found Pete Hiatt's Gunstocks suggestions on stock finishing to be very helpful--especially the 'Wait till the first heavy coat is getting tacky, then rub the thickening finish into the pores.'

You could also do this after several diluted coats.

What I find fascinating in this thread is that no one mentions the lack of working time you have with Tru Oil, It gets tacky and gums up so fast that you have almost no time to flatten it out in a thin layer. I cannot comprehend wet sanding with straight or even thinned Tru Oil for this reason.

The times I've used Tru Oil, I've thiined it with mineral spirits and added boiled linseed to slow it down and allow it to be applied in very thin coats. A little Japan drier helps to counteract the linseed's longer curing time.
JR

What I have done so far when practicing (whether diluted or undiluted) is to apply very thin coats with my finger and work/rub it in very thoroughly so there is no excess build up. I use very little Tru-oil to do an entire coat on a stock and forearm. I let it dry/cure for 24 hours and then wet sand. After wet sanding I wipe down the stock and then apply another coat.

A few more questions. How many coats of Tru-oil are others putting on? I was planning on at least 15 and progressively wet sanding from 400 grit to 1500.

Does anyone have pictures of a stock finished with Behlen's Blood Red Stain? The links to the example pictures in the DIY forum are no longer valid.

Are there any other stains that produce really nice results? A few of I have heard of are: ColorTone Liquid Stain - Tobacco Brown, Minwax Gunstock #231 & Minwax Jacobean #2750.

The thinning of it helps slow down drying time. And also using it when fresh helps too. If it has started to thicken up in the bottle from sitting, then drying time is reduced when working with it.

When doing wet sanding filler coats, you don't have to work the whole stock at once. A section at a time is fine.

I rarely use Tru Oil anymore, but there are some jobs that it works well for.

If it gets too tacky just rub on some fresh Tru Oil and the tacky coat will rub right off. Bobby

I've done only one, but this approach worked fine for me. After a few thin coats I no longer took it down to bare wood -- just far enough where I was reaching the level of the partially filled pores. About half a dozen coats was enough to fill them. Seems to me this method was what the maker's instructions prescribed? It turned out very well.

Jay

+1 on not thinning the Tru oil except maybe the first coat. You could even add a bit of spar varnish for a coat or two to speed up the pore filling.

To slow down the Tru-oil drying up in the bottle you can leave the foil seal on the bottle and just poke a small hole through it. This will limit the amount of air. I also store the bottle upside down so if a fil develops it will be at the bottom of the bottle.

Are there some ready made options instead of Tru-oil?

Victory, the late Russ Rupple used to replace the Tru Oil used with marbles in his Tru Oil container. This raised the level enough to limit the air drying the oil, so he claimed.

"The times I've used Tru Oil, I've thiined it with mineral spirits and added boiled linseed to slow it down and allow it to be applied in very thin coats. A little Japan drier helps to counteract the linseed's longer curing time.
JR

John, so you added more linseed oil to what Tru Oil already has in it.

Daryl, you can also put the bottle cap down and trap any air that will now be at the bottom.

At the risk of topic shift....

I have been reading this thread as well as the 31 page discussion with great interest. I appreciate all of the insight provided therein. I have a related question about earlier in the process...

How many times and at what point does one raise the grain/whiskers with water? I'm in the middle of a stock and did so after completion of 220 grit. I've now finished, dry sanding, to 400 grit. Should I be dousing the stock again?

Apologies if I am hijacking this conversation--not at all my intent. It's all related, at least, in my head.

Thank you,
Hoot

Not to hijack this thread either but I recently refinished a stock (a new AyA with sub par factory job, imo) following some of the good advice on this board.

For my project, Tru Oil worked well to fill pores but did not give me the desired results for sheen. I tried rottenstone with ultra fine scotch brite after giving it ample time but it looked a bit off to me. Not to mention, Tru Oil is not easy to work with. I agree that straight out of the bottle you get very little time to work with it.

Next I sanded it down and tried Slacum oil. This may have worked but since I'm an impatient American I was not able to get the desired results. Also, I attempted this during April in New York so the weather was not accommodating for drying.

After sending is back down again I finally settled on pure tung oil thinned 50/50 with citrus solvent. This stuff is amazing to work with. It rubs in nicely, is forgiving, has the perfect satin look and feel, and at the 50/50 rate goes on thin and dries relatively quickly. After about 20 coats I'm looking forward to shooting this fall.

I have discovered that there's one cardinal set of rules that applies to stock refinishing and this is to have patience and take your time. The results you attain regardless of the specific method will be directly related to your ability to allow applications to dry properly before proceeding, taking that extra time when sanding if sanding is required and applying as many thin coats as necessary to properly complete the job.
Rush through any of these steps, and I know this from past first hand experience, and the result will at best be a mediocre finish.
Jim

There is a product called Blox which is an inert gas in an aerosol can which is used to stop paint and finishes from skinning over or drying in the can or bottle. It is heavier than air, and a shot is put in to displace the air in the can on the surface of the unused finish just before replacing the lid.

I do the same thing with the argon/CO2 gas in my MIG welder. I just loosen the wire feed wheels and pull the trigger to dispense the inert shielding gas into paint or finish cans. It works well and is much cheaper than Blox, but not quite as convenient.

The Birchwood Casy stock sheen and conditioner works great for dulling down a glossy Tru-oil finish enough to make it very attractive.

Wine bars and amateur winos sometimes use nitrogen in partially used containers to displace oxygen so the wine keeps better.

Regarding the Tru Oil drying too fast, you can spread it quickly with a rag or the fat part of your hand. Thinning with linseed will help but soffen the final finish in proportion to how much you add. Maybe try just a little. Agree on the BC stock sheen and conditioner to cut the shine more than rottenstone. I Like the r-stone sheen myself.

Another question. If I want to use Behlen Blood Red stain, when do I apply it? After dry sanding the stock or after the first few diluted applications of Tru-oil to fill the bores? Also, at what stage should the checkered areas be stained? Thanks, Patrick.

Steven Dodd Hughes (SDH) has a tutorial on this site about applying Behlen stain after filling pores. It should be in the new DIY section.

As to the question about whiskering,keep doing it until no more rise.
Mike

Thank you Mike.

Simple as I should have guessed.

Does it make a difference where in the sanding regime the "whiskering" occurs? That is, 'sand at 220, whisker, resand at 220, rewhisker, etc.' or 'sand at 220, whisker, sand at 400, rewhisker, etc.'?

I've done a few stocks but never to this level of detail. The one in process is an experimental platform. Probably putting more effort into the stock than the rifle would ever be worth but it's good practice for something finer.

Whiskering should come after sanding is complete.Use the finest abrasive used in sanding, or steelwool.If steel wool, be sure to get all the steel slivers off before finishing.
Mike

Thanks. As I read through it I saw that SDH said he did not sand any more after the stain was applied. I plan on using Tru-oil and I am curious if anyone continued to wet sand after each application of Tru-oil? He also commented that we found the Blood Red stain too red. Does anyone have a picture used the Blood Red stain?

The basic procedure for applying Tru Oil is to lightly sand (with a very fine grit) between coats. This takes the finish back to the wood, or close to it, to fill the pores without building up too much thickness. Their slogan is/was "the filler is in the finish". Birchwood Casey's instructions for the oil are pretty good. Wet sanding with a thinned finish is a different method to create a slurry of sanding dust and fill the grain in one or two coats. Google around for instructions on that.

OH! Obviously I assumed it was internal to the sanding process. Will forge ahead.

Thank you again Mike.