doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com UK Light Loads

I am taking an 1870s hammer gun with damascus barrels to the UK for driven pheasant this fall. The gun has 2 1/2" chambers and is proofed at 3 tons for nitro. Does anyone know or recommend a light pressure load made in the UK that I could have my outfitter purchase for me? Anything that might be equal to the RST that we have in the states?

Check to see if P&B High Pheasant loads are available, the 1 ounce loads run in the 6000 psi range. I know the are made in Italy. Eley might be producing some as I've bought 65mm hulls with the Eley headstamp and I believe Gamebore cartridges make 2.5"/65mm cartridges

Gamebore UK

http://www.gamebore.com/products/16/12g-super-game-high-bird

Eleyhawk UK

http://www.eleyhawkltd.com/cartridge/12-gauge/game/classic-game-paper-case

I use Hull Imperial, and prefer the 26 gram version, but they are available in 26, 28 or 30 gram versions.
Do please check if your host requires felt/fibre wads as many UK shoots don't allow plastic wads (and don't get caught out by arriving with plastic if it is not allowed on your host's shoot). Personally, I would always use felt/fibre (even for clays) as I dislike to see the plastic litter. Imperial game are all fibre.

http://www.hullcartridge.co.uk/impgame.htm

Much depends on your gun's weight. A gun below 6 1/2 lbs will be very lively with 30 gram.
Another factor is the height of the birds. Some of the (few) very high bird shoots (think Devon valleys) may not be so well suited to a vintage gun with suitable loads as many of the attendees there claim a heavy extra high performance load is needed. Attendees there tend to use their 34" barelled Perazzis and 42 gram loads. I can't really comment as I have never been.
Hull Imperial 26 or 28 gram are fine for the normal shooting I do.

I hope you have a really enjoyable time with your vintage gun over here.

I agree with John's comments. You will not encounter the slightest problem in obtaining the correct type of cartridges for a 2 1/2" chamber gun here in the U.K. as most loads sold for game shooting will be suitable. There are many brands to choose from. Just tell the gun dealer what you want them for and the gun you use and he will advise. There will be many brands to choose from.

Most pheasants will be shot with 1 ounce loads of number six shot. 1 1/8th. ounce loads are considered heavy here. There are some shoots that put on very high birds and there is some controversy here over the practice because of the risk of wounding. For these shoots, as John says, they will use over choked guns firing 1 1/4 ounce loads. Last year I shot driven pheasants (not overly high, just normal) with a 28 bore and 3/4 ounce loads. I had no reason to be disappointed and kills were clean.

Talk with your host. Don't forget there are beaters, flankers, stops and people behind picking up. If it hasn't got sky round it then leave it as there will be another along in a few seconds that will provide a good safe sporting shot. Good luck. Do you know where you are going yet? Lagopus.....

Hull imperial game in a 26 or 28 gram loading, its a fantastic cartridge and i have just bought another slab today a very good cartridge in vintage guns. I have had them in 5's and 6's and in 26 and 28 grams and its a cartridge that gives me confidence.

Thank you all for the good information. No one mentioned the H&H paper shells. They have the slowest fps and thus are likely to have the lowest pressures.

I sent the recommendations to my UK outfitter. We shoot on 3 estates, so for good measure, should get fiber wads, and I think paper hulls and probably a max. of 1 oz. might seem reasonable.

I would not worry about paper hulls; from my experience its an absolute rarity to see anyone using paper hulls shooting in this country unless they are an enthusiastic BP shooter, best practice is to always pick up your empty cartridges at the end of the drive so the biodegradable advantage of paper hulls makes no difference.. fiber wads however are pretty important most shoots insist on that.

Another thing to bear in mind is our.. interesting.. laws on shooting wildfowl, if the shoots have a duck drive or flight as part of the day you will likely need to look getting some kind of bismuth or tungsten matrix cartridge as its illegal to shoot wildfowl with lead in the UK.

Would be really interested to see a write up of your shooting here.

Just following on from johns post about high birds, hull imperial game will cope with very good sporting birds, if you know the birds you will be shooting are going to be particularly tall and you are determined to shoot your vintage gun consider going up a couple of shot sizes. I believe imperial game are loaded as big as shot size 4 which might just give you more retained energy at range.

I've shot wildfowl in Scotland with lead. It's been my understanding that it depends on where you're shooting, as in maybe over water or something like that vs over land. But I also seem to recall someone saying that the nontoxic shot requirement is different in England than in Scotland.

Len,
Sounds like you have gotten some good advice. However, I don't like the thought of risking that Grant to the vagaries of baggage handlers, government inspectors and unknown ammunition. I will let you take my Model 50 Husqvarna to the UK and I'll watch over your gun while you're gone. The Husky has had the cones lengthened and you can shoot whatever you want in it. It's choked IM/IM and will work well on tall pheasants. I'll even deliver it to you so we can swap guns without shipping them. I know, I know, it's a generous offer on my part.
Regards,
Jeff

Since 1999, the use of lead shot for all wildfowling has been made illegal in England and Wales.

You are quite right however that the use of lead is different in Scotland and Northern Ireland depending on the area over which you are shooting

The use of lead is also illegal for all shooting on or over wetlands (including foreshore) in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Unfortunately the offerings for non toxic cartridges suitable for vintage guns are generally limited and expensive.

There are three commercially available loading's i have tried.

1) Impact ( a tungsten matrix ) 65mm case, fibre wad, 30 grams of 5's are �66 / box of 25 shells

2) VIP EVO III Bismuth, 28 gram, 5's, 67mm case ( suitable in 2 1/2 inch chambers ) fibre wad, �33 / box of 25 shells.

3) HEVI SHOT 65mm plastic wad, 26 grams of 5's, �50 / box of 25.

These are the only offerings i have found that suit vintage guns and will go through Damascus or old barrels without causing damage. Most organised shoots insist on using non toxic on wild fowl and i can think of more than one shoot that will sell boxes to unprepared sportsmen on the day, thing is you really can't guarantee that anyone is going to have cartridges that will suit your gun.

Hope the information is useful to you or others, my personal preference is the VIP bismuth.