doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 12 w/external choke

Do any of you own/shoot an M12 with an external choke like a poly choke, cutts or some other brand? I thinking of buying one. It's difficult to find an affordable unaltered M12 with an open choke for skeet shooting at an affordable price. I guess I'd prefer the cutts but would consider something else. Interested in any comments pro or con. Thanks.

I started my Skeet shooting career with military Model 12 Skeet Guns with Cutts, and I had a Cutts barrel and magazine assembly for my Model 42. Don't mind shooting them at all, but I dislike the looks of them. I bought the first 28-gauge Model 12 I ever found without a cobb.

Have owned a coupla Cutts guns. Usually they're found with just the "spreader" tube installed, some previous owner having long ago lost the other tubes. 12 ga tubes seem readily available, but smaller gauge tubes are less so (almost unobtainium in the case of .410s).

Myth #1: you can't shoot modern shotcup loads through a Cutts. Pure bunk. Using shotcup loads, spreader tubes usually throw patterns a smidge tighter than factory "skeet"/WS1 in .410 and 20. The 12 ga Speader/Skeet tube throws just like WS1 (which is about like IC). Have not patterned the 28.

Compensators add weight out front - whether this is "good" depends on the shooter. Compensators increase noise levels to those standing to the side or obliquely behind, as is the case with ported rifles and shotguns.

Myth #2: you can't shoot them with the choke tube unscrewed. Bunk. Cutts compensators are not difficult to clean or maintain, and you can unscrew them to get a cylinder pattern without hurting anything. If you choose to do this you just need to carefully clean up the threads before reinstalling the tube. I suppose you could have someone make up a thread protector sleeve with notches at top to facilitate removal, but I never bothered.

Polychokes make alot of sense on a field gun, IMO. They were not so commonly installed on skeet guns.

Sam

Doubleguy-

I have a 1959 M12 Featherweight that wears the omnipresent Polychoke. I can't think of a thing wrong with it, save for the fact that collectors hate to see these guns modified in any way. That is actually a plus in my book, because I bought my M12 to shoot and the alteration makes these guns among the best bargains in the firearms community and a better, more flexible shooter to boot.

Some think these external chokes are ugly, others tolerate them and very few consider them a thing of beauty. Put in the context of the times, external chokes on these single barrel guns made a lot of sense. So much sense in fact that many shooters put them on their guns right out of the box. A good number of M12s, like mine, left the factory with a full choke and with modern loads, a full choke has limited utility for my shooting, so I am very happy to own and shoot this alterned M12.

The Polychoke is the better approach in my opinion, in fact, you can for around $100 still get this choke. While it does add a bit of weight to the barrel, this was often offset by shortening the barrel, in return the shooter has a choke that they can adjust quickly and without tools. My Polychoke patterns very well and I have used it at all settings (but least often on the full setting), and depending on how I am shooting and what I am shooting, I do find that I twist it as needed. Anyone that is bothered by the device when shooting, is most likely shooting the shotgun wrong and not paying attention to the target but rather focused on the muzzle.

So, if you are buying to collect, pass on the Polychoke (or other external choke). If you are buying it to shoot, then consider that you are getting a functional upgrade that would cost you $100 to add today and the shotgun will at the same time cost you several hundred dollars less.

The M12 is one of my favorite shotguns (and my favorite repeater), it is in many ways, even today, the perfect repeating shotgun. The actions are smooth and flawless in function and these shotguns offer reliable feeding of 100s of rounds of anything you want to shoot (unlike auto loaders that can be particular about loads and get fouled with use). The quality of manufacture and materials is very good and could not be touched today in a new shotgun for twice the money.

Doug

Nothing wrong with it at all, except for resale. As long as it suits your uses, fine. Just be aware you should buy the gun for less than it would bring without the added choke.

Like Researcher above, when I started shooting skeet on military teams in the 50's, we all used Model 12's with Cutts, with Model 42's with Cutts for .410 and with 3" shells, for 28 gauge until we could get Model 12's in 28 gauge. A few used Rem Model 31's, but these were personal guns. These guns were in the vast majority until the late 50's and early 60's when we, the individual shooters, started buying the Browning Superposed (1961 price at military gun clubs overseas was $170.00. We would have buddies over there buy and ship back to us). Some military commands also started buying Brownings for their shooters at that time. By the late 60's, Brownings and Krieghofs with tubes and Rem Model 1100's were in the majority with many of the Win Model 12's being sent into the salvage systems for disposal on the civilian or personal markets. Jim Haynes

Winchester installed several choke devices at the factory. Starting in 1928 the Cutts was available on 12ga M12s and in 1939 they were offered on 16ga guns. Cutts were offered in the 529,000 to 700,000 serial number range. Other choke systems offered from the factory were Lyman Adjustable, Lymn Adjustable with Recoil Chamber, Lyman Economy, Standard and Vented Poly-Choke, and the Weaver Choke. Guns with these chokes installed at the factory had no choke markings on the barrel and usually had a forged shoulder at the muzzel to accomodate the choke. These chokes were a special order item and were furnished on 28" barrels unless a different legnth was specified.

In 1960 I purchased a Mod12,20 Ga.Skeet with a factory installed Vent. Poly Choke,barrel stamped WS-1.In those days no screw in chokes and extra barrel assy. cost too much.Most shooters on the skeet field had Cuts Compensators on their Mod12's.
The Ventelated Poly Choke patterns fine
.The only problem , it is only worth half of what it would be to a collector since the Poly Choke is installed.The MSRP in those days was $198.50.
If you purshase a Mod.12 find a fixed choke barrel for your needs, do not have external choke installed it will kill the value.

I have a 28 gauge Mdl. 12 with cutts and enjoy shooting it. I have had 12 gauge as well they do the job but are quite a bit louder. They can make you unpopular in a duck blind.