doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Moore & Harris

A percussion gun in exceptional original condition.....

i love those guns, i had a greeves that was a beautiful, nicely engraved sxs.i hunted quite a bit with it.that is a nice sxs .are you going to hunt with it?

Not mine, just in for a cleaning and a small amount of minor work.

Very nice laminated steel barrels. Appears to have the original nipples. Platinum blowouts. Solid at the breech. Good find!

That's where the English guns earned their names; James Purdey, Westley Richards, William Moore, Joseph Manton and a few others.

Using muzzleloaders in Africa, India and other parts of the world to hunt dangerous game.

very nice...

It is indeed wonderful to handle and observe unmolested original guns in this sort of condition.

Keeps us on the straight and narrow.

For interest, here is what IGC have on Moore & Harris:

Name William Harris
Address1 38 Great Hampton Street; Loveday Street
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun maker
Other Address
Dates 1853

Notes
In 1829 William Moore of 118 Whitechapel, London, opened a stock making business at Court, 4 Whittall Street, Birmingham. This may also have been a purchasing office for guns and revolvers and gun parts. In 1837 the address changed to 35 Loveday Street where it was recorded up to 1845. In 1838 William Moore and William Harris became partners in the firm of Moore & Harris at 35 Loveday Street, William Harris also started trading from these premises in his own name. In 1840 the partnership was recorded at 36 Loveday Street trading as gun and pistol makers; at least some of the guns sold were marked Moore & Harris, London (these were proved in London). It is possible that William Harris was related to Alfred Harris who traded as a gun barrel maker in Birmingham (see Joseph Harris of Lionel Street).

From 1840 to 1845 William Moore traded in his own name as a gunsmith from 35 Loveday Street (the terms "gunsmith" and "gun maker" were interchangeable at that time), William Harris probably ceased trading in his own name in 1845. In the 1851 census William Harris was recorded as a master gun maker employing 5 men. He was living at 38 Great Hampton Street with his wife Emma Lucy (nee Hedder b.1816 in Northampton), his mother-in-law Harriet Hedder (b.1777 in Uxbridge, Middlesex) and a servant. In 1852 William Moore and William Harris patented a percussion revolver which was produced in limited quantities (patent No. 69). At about this time they may also have made needle-fire rifles. The needle-fire rifle was perfected in about 1840 by Nicolaus Von Dreyse of Sommerda, Germany, and remained in production until about 1870. Needle-fire rifles were also made by Chassepot (France), Carl (Russia), Carcano (Italy), Hagstrom (Swedish) and Jean Jacques Rissack (Belgium). Moore & Harris certainly made Rissack needle-fire rifles.

By 1859 in Birmingham the partnership had expanded into barrel and lock making, and in 1861 they moved to the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill. It is possible that William Moore retired or died at this time, as has been reported, but it is more likely he died in 1863/4. The 1861 census records William Harris as a gun maker living at 36 Loveday Street with Emma Lucy and Edwin Hedder (b.1819 in London) and a servant. In 1862 the partnership exhibited military and sporting guns at the International Exhibition in London, they supplied the trade as well as William Moore in London, and they developed an export market in the USA. In 1864, perhaps because of temporary financial problems (American Civil War contracts ending?) or more likely because William Moore died, the manufacturing partnership at the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill was almost bankrupt and it was sold at auction; the buyers were the partnership of Moore and Harris and a Mr Richards. The Moore could have been a successor to William Moore (Mrs Moore / William Moore Jnr?), and Mr Richards was probably Westley Richards. However, the new partnership with Mr Richards closed within a year and the business was sold to W & C Scott & Son. W & C Scott & Son may well have bought the firm because of the Moore & Harris USA export business.

Moore & Harris continued trading, in 1867 they were known to have occupied premises at 2 Long Acre, London. By the time of the 1871 census William and Emma Lucy had moved to London where William described himself as manager of a gun factory. This was the Moore & Grey works at 43 Old Bond Street. William and Emma Lucy were living at 126 Buckingham Palace Road. The 1881 census, by which time William was 64 years old, gives exactly the same information. It would appear that John B Grey had died by 1881 and William Harris took over the running of Moore & Grey at 43 Old Bond Street.

On 17 October 1892 W Moore & Grey and William Harris registered patent No. 18582) for an intercepting safety sear for rifle locks and triggers. In 1893, when the Inanimate Bird Shooting Association was formed, a "Mr Harris of Moore & Grey" attended. Apparently, he ran the Wealdstone Gun Club which was based at Harrow. It is likely that William Harris died in the early 1890s.

See William Moore of 118 Whitechapel, London.
William Moore was born in 1781, where is not known. In 1808 a William Moore was recorded as being in business (description of business unknown) at 118 Whitechapel. A William Moore was also recorded as being a stocker for Joseph Manton, probably from 1809 to 1820. It is possible that he was related to Charles Moore of the firm of that name (later known as Moore & Woodward).
From 1818 to 1853 William Moore lived at Colchester Road, Edgeware. In 1820 he established his own business at that address, but by 1828 his trade had increased to the point where he required larger premises so he opened a shop at 78 Edgeware Road.

In 1829 he opened a stock making business at Court, 4 Whittall Street, Birmingham but it is likely that he became gun maker soon afterwards. In 1835 a percussion lock developed by Moore was rejected by the Board of Ordnance. In 1836 William Moore was appointed Gunmaker-in-Ordinary to King William IV so it is apparent that he had significant influence in the trade and produced guns in arrange of qualities which were probably sold from premises somewhere in London. In that year the name of the firm changed to William Moore & Co.

In 1837 the stock making business at Court, 4 Whittall Street moved to 35 Loveday Street where it was recorded up to 1845. This seems to have been the start of a long relationship which William Moore had with William Harris who occupied 35 and 36 Loveday Street at various times. In 1838 William Moore was appointed gunmaker to Prince Albert. William Harris was born in 1817 in Aston, Birmingham. He may have been related to Alfred Harris who traded as a gun barrel maker in Birmingham (see also Joseph Harris of Lionel Street). In 1838 William Moore and William Harris were recorded as partners in the firm of Moore & Harris, also at 35 Loveday Street, but William Harris also traded from these premises in his own name.

In 1840 the partnership was recorded at 36 Loveday Street trading as gun and pistol makers; at least some of the guns sold were marked "London" and were marked Moore & Harris, London, and were proved in London. The partnership probably used William Moore's address at 78 Edgeware Road, London. They appear to have supplied the trade as well as William Moore in London, and they also developed an export trade to the USA. William Moore was recorded in the 1841 census living at 78a Edgeware Road with his wife, Sarah (b.1806 place of birth unknown) and a servant. No other census entries have been found and the 1851 census records 78a Edgeware Road as being a milliner's shop. From 1840 to 1845 William Moore also traded in his own name as a gunsmith from 35 Loveday Street. Harris ceased trading in his own name in 1845.

An interesting web of names!

Tim

Thanks Tim. I'm trying to puzzle out this rifle barrel as well. As you can see it is after the King died in 1837 but does not use the "& Co." moniker and also uses the Edgeware rd address.

William Moore and Grey, Old Bond St., London. This gun uses the Grey patent. Hammer looking things are actually only cocking levers with the firing pins on the inside of the gun.