April
S M T W T F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online Now
9 members (mel5141, docbill, AZMike, KY Jon, mc, 1 invisible), 118 guests, and 6 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics35,537
Posts500,435
Members14,013
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 15 1 2 3 4 14 15
Dewey Vicknair
Unregistered
Dewey Vicknair
Unregistered

Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
Dewey: could you please explain your animus toward Smith guns; in language a gentleman could understand and appreciate.
Were you not responsible for restoration of the Peary gun in the DGJ article "The Robert E. Peary Gun" by Tom Archer, Volume 21, Issue 3, Page 78?
Is it entirely the gun, or a Smith owner that riled you?
And I'm simply asking, not challenging, and very glad you have returned to gunsmithing/gunbuilding.


I am responsible for the restoration of the Peary gun (as well as a Gifford Simonds owned Crown grade) and numerous other Smiths as well as countless repairs to others, but this in no way constitutes an endorsement of the design. The commissions were taken because I had (have) expenses to meet, and the level of workmanship that I put into those was to the same standards that I hold for myself regardless of what I'm working on. Many people mistakenly assume that my finished work is the result of some "passion" for a particular gun. What many mistake for passion is probably really just OCD.

It is entirely the gun.

No one has me "riled". My thoughts about any individual would never color my analysis of a mechanical device (the reverse might be true, however).

I have many years working on shotguns from every industrialized nation on Earth and I can tell you that there is nothing impressive about any classic-era American shotguns. Once one has seen actual high quality, it becomes difficult to make excuses for guns like the Smith.
Once one disassembles an L.C. Smith for the first time, the level of Rube-Goldbergian design readily becomes apparent. To wit,

- a toplever spindle that is supported by the removable triggerplate at the bottom and held in place by a wholly inadequately sized screw

- wood that the gun simply can not spare is removed to make room for the toplever spindle, leaving two narrow vertical webs to transmit all recoil forces through the stock, this entire area is solid in any Holland-pattern sidelock

- both iterations of the safety mechanism are poorly thought-out and sloppily made

- the cocking system is an answer to a question that nobody asked, and it's not a good one

- the first-type ejectors must have seemed like a clever idea at the time

- the agri-locks, I'm sure that someone will post a photo of the lock from and A2 or some such and say how they're the equal of anything English, German, etc….. they're not, not even with the jeweling and "fancy" bridle

- the use of corrosive flux during barrel assembly that invariably leads to the need to strip and relay the ribs, when you're making more guns than everyone else ya gotta cut some corners to keep production up

- the late (single spring) hammergun lock is an abomination with its single-legged and single-screwed bridle which can ( by design) never serve its primary function of stabilizing the tumbler and sear pivots

Ironically, the best single trigger that was ever available in a classic-era American double came in the Smith. Given the overall average level of gunsmithng competence in America, this is unsurprisingly the most maligned feature of the gun.
_________________________

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,331
Likes: 10
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,331
Likes: 10
Good to see you posting again, Dewey. Welcome back!

Best,
Ted

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Originally Posted By: treblig1958
Are you sure he is referring to the LC Smith or is he referring to gunsmiths?


Oh, so I guess he did mean the LC Smith. Never mind. whistle

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,813
Likes: 18
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,813
Likes: 18
Dewey, I wish you would just please come out and say what you mean instead of beating around the bush. LOL

You may not have meant to, but you sure made me smile reading your post, Dewey. That's what I call a comprehensive mechanical assessment from a highly skilled individual that is also damn entertaining to read.

Last edited by canvasback; 10/30/15 11:28 PM.

The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
I knew that decades ago, but someone with experience finally put it in a concise statement. Just look how well American built doubles sell on the international market. We're the only ones that like them or make excuses for them.

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,586
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,586
Some make excuses for them. Most of these American sxs shotguns have been used for over 100 years and are still going strong with nothing done to them, not even a full cleaning. Most of these guns were used hard in putting food on the table and a small percentage were used in the sporting games of trap and these were used hard also.

I find that I do have to make excuses for them, they are what they are, a mass produced shotgun that filled the bill for the American shooter.

Remember in Europe it is mostly a privilege to hunt and own a shotgun. Also, that Purdey, Boss, H&H does not shoot any better or farther than the cheapest made American sxs.

Last edited by JDW; 10/31/15 08:45 AM.

David


Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 27
Boxlock
Offline
Boxlock

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 27
I, too, am puzzled by the fondness for American guns. Except in a way I’m not puzzled. I believe it’s grounded in emotion and nostalgia, frankly.

A useful comparison would be to American muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s. The value of those cars skyrocketed once the guys who lusted after them as teenagers finally became old enough and well-heeled enough to be able to buy, restore and collect them. Were they good cars? Gawd no.

So let’s review the bidding. Most folks who hang out here are very likely white males in their 50s, 60s and 70s. (Disclosure: I am all of those and 60.) They (we) grew up in a better time in many respects, living in small towns, near abundant hunting opportunities where, if you were like me, the gun and fishing tackle areas of the hardware stores were better than a movie ticket. And what did we see there? Names like Remington, Winchester etc. So take a big handful of nostalgia for a long-gone era, add a pinch of patriotism that evinces itself as a preference for American made, then maybe add just a dash of old-guy crankiness and there you have it.

Hell: the place where you’re forced to shoot American doubles and fish British fly rods.

Heaven: the place where you get to shoot British doubles and fish American fly rods.

But I still love my country.

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 4
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 4
Dewey; As an expert gunsmith, would you make critical comment re the Winchester Model 21, the good and the bad? I would appreciate hearing your opinion. Thanks, Buzz


Socialism is almost the worst.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 809
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 809
that was a bracing post by Dewey Vicknair. The L.C. Smith cocking levers and the lock layout always made me wonder what the designers were thinking of.

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 2
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 2
Originally Posted By: buzz
Dewey; As an expert gunsmith, would you make critical comment re the Winchester Model 21, the good and the bad? I would appreciate hearing your opinion. Thanks, Buzz

+1 please

Page 2 of 15 1 2 3 4 14 15

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u9 Page Time: 0.089s Queries: 35 (0.063s) Memory: 0.8602 MB (Peak: 1.8990 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-04-23 13:27:19 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS