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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Dollysods, I've heard of red and gray phase ruffed grouse, but never a chocolate phase. Are they common?...Geo


sounds a little like an Iowa deer drive, where, if more than one of the shooters survive, they often divide up the deer as well.


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BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)

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About ten years ago all my cousins decided to do a deer drive. I asked them to do it on one of my farms. There are three sections of woods, marsh separates them on the small peninsula the farm sits on. River to the back , open field cover the front two thirds. They drove two sections of woods which forced the deer into the fields as they ran from wood to woods. The brighter cousin pointed out that they had killed 21 deer after two sections and maybe they ought not drive the third.

After a few beers they kind of agreed. They drove the last section but did not shoot anymore deer. Now the number of deer goes up every year but the smartest and most likely most correct cousin counted over sixty deer that flameout of here. They were busy until well after dark dealing with all the deer they harvested. I got two tenderloins and the farmer got a lot less deer to feed the next year. Deer drives can be very effective but it took 20 people to make it work and then the real work started.

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Gunwolf, I had the pleasure of hunting when I was in Germany 1966-67. I became friends with a German fireman who worked on our kaserne and I was invited to hunt on his father's place when I told him I had bought a Remington 11-48,.410. He asked what I was going to shoot with this as he had a Franchi 20ga. I told him I could kill as much as he could with his.
In the mornings we hunted just with myself, my friend his son and the father. The afternoon is when hunters arrived to go on a big hunt for Hungarian partridge, hares but too early for pheasant as they would not bring as much at the market if not fully plumaged. All the game was sold and you could buy it from them if you wanted.

I was wondering if that is still the tradition.


David


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Originally Posted By: KY Jon
About ten years ago all my cousins decided to do a deer drive. I asked them to do it on one of my farms. There are three sections of woods, marsh separates them on the small peninsula the farm sits on. River to the back , open field cover the front two thirds. They drove two sections of woods which forced the deer into the fields as they ran from wood to woods. The brighter cousin pointed out that they had killed 21 deer after two sections and maybe they ought not drive the third.

After a few beers they kind of agreed. They drove the last section but did not shoot anymore deer. Now the number of deer goes up every year but the smartest and most likely most correct cousin counted over sixty deer that flameout of here. They were busy until well after dark dealing with all the deer they harvested. I got two tenderloins and the farmer got a lot less deer to feed the next year. Deer drives can be very effective but it took 20 people to make it work and then the real work started.


Jon, does Maryland issue deer depredation permits to farmers who have excessive crop damage?

I know exactly how your farmer feels about being happy to see 21 deer gone.


SRH


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Stan we can get permits. They used them for that harvest. I had 75 permits that year. Deer numbers were getting out of hand. A hunter could harvest 12-16 deer that year if he used bow, rifle, primitive long gun and took advantage of all the special seasons and special permits.

We had about a 40% die off last year. Not information that is widely spread. In fact the DNR will dispute those numbers but I saw the dead deer with my own eyes. we had forty in one ten acre section of the woods. And total number of deer this year are down but far from down enough. The real problem is/was that deer were becoming so concentrated in some areas that if any disease were to enter the heard the entire heard might be wiped out in days to a week. My one farm is a small peninsula that deer go to hide in the thick woods and marsh areas. Too concentrated and too locked into their little hidden hole.

On one other farm we can no longer raise soybeans. You don't just loose the outside six to ten rows you loose them all by the harvest time. The problem should be better next year. The hunters were given an ultimatum, harvest more deer or loose the lease. They shot seventeen bucks last year and three does. You know the harvest of does is critical to heard management. If they don't remove 24 does this year along with at least a dozen bucks they will not be allowed to return. They have from Sept until Jan with bow, long gun and special primitive seasons. And if they can not show me 36 checking tags for that farm they will be gone. I am tired of deer numbers going up almost every year.

All told my three farms and my fathers farm should have 80-120 deer harvested. Anything less and they will eat us out of house and home unless deer (aids) hits them and they suffer a major die off. I am really afraid that that is coming, some viral infection outbreak that reduces the heard by half or two thirds. You just can not have ever increasing number of animals for ever without some check by mother nature.

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Shoot all the does you need to take out of the herd as early in the season as you can. Shoot your bucks late, but get the does out of the herd as early as you can. That way they have to eat every day until you shoot them. Dramatically thinning your doe heard will raise bigger bucks too.

A friend of mine approached a big land owner nearby and asked if he ever let anyone hunt his ground. The guy said, yup. You have to cut down thirty cedar trees and shoot five does before you can kill a buck.

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Originally Posted By: Geo. Newbern
Dollysods, I've heard of red and gray phase ruffed grouse, but never a chocolate phase. Are they common?...Geo


No they are rare, but in my area of Pa.(southcentral) any grouse can be considered rare. frown

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Originally Posted By: David
A friend of mine approached a big land owner nearby and asked if he ever let anyone hunt his ground. The guy said, yup. You have to cut down thirty cedar trees and shoot five does before you can kill a buck.


David that's a great idea. I may incorporate it into my lease. I don't care about the cedar trees, but the sweetgums really fill up my pine plantations as they are being thinned and allow light on the ground...Geo

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South Georgia deer dogs are not on equal footing with the glamour hounds of a French Chateau. While well treated by some, they are the cannon fodder of the canine hunting world, at least around here. There are exceptions. Dolly, a pitiful looking skin and bones beagle, was found by me in a remote river swamp while woodcock hunting over 12 miles and a week from where and when the pack was released. Fortunately she was collared with a phone number on a tag. The owner was overjoyed to get her back as she was his daughter's favorite and a pet as well. Abby was glad to see her exit my truck's floorboard as Dolly had wolfed down Abby's Milk Bones. Walter told me the story of a man he once hunted with who emptied the local dog pounds for prospective deer dogs. While hunting with the motley pack, one lagged behind. The man pulled out a ball peen hammer from his pouch. "What are you going to do with that hammer?" "Kill that worthless dog." Walter begged him not to do it and the man didn't. At least not while Walter was around.

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Originally Posted By: GLS
Walter told me the story of a man he once hunted with who emptied the local dog pounds for prospective deer dogs. While hunting with the motley pack, one lagged behind. The man pulled out a ball peen hammer from his pouch. "What are you going to do with that hammer?" "Kill that worthless dog." Walter begged him not to do it and the man didn't. At least not while Walter was around.


That's horrible. I'm not a great shot, but I've never had a dog come at me with a hammer as a result.


-Leverhead
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