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Drew, in your previous post where you listed black powder pressures and 1895 to WW I Smokeless pressures, were those figures CUP or LUP or have they been adjusted for modern transducer pressure readings?

Mark II, you are not confused about a letter from Ithaca warning shooters about the dangers of Damascus barrels.


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Keith: I should have made it clear that these are modern piezo transducer estimated numbers based on the original LUP.

12g
1 1/8 oz. 3 Dram Equivalent of BULK Smokeless was 6500 - 7500 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 Dr. Eq. of DENSE Smokeless was 9000 - 10,000 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was about 8500 psi.
1 1/8 oz. 3 1/4 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was 9500 - 10,500 psi.
16g 1 oz. 2 3/4 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was about 7000 psi.
20g
7/8 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. BULK Smokeless was 8000-9000 psi.
7/8 oz. 2 1/2 Dr. Eq. DENSE Smokeless was about 11,000 psi.

Details here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F2sQuPm05IE4VWYYnCkvuXmYEzQoWd_SQgaAfUOZEFU/preview

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bonny Offline OP
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So what amount of powder would be needed for a light to medium load, pushing 1oz of shot, fibre wad, 2 1/2" chambers ? Just for walked up game and informal clay dusting ?

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Thanks for posting that Gil. I hear that Damascus guns with lots of engraving and highly figured wood are especially prone to bursting. I will pay 10% over current scrap steel prices for any such gun sent to me for safe disposal.


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So according to that letter, the gun is unsafe with the ammunition it was originally designed for ? It sounds like ass-covering corporate speak to me. Or throw that in the scrap bin and buy a new shotgun.

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Does it make you a domestic terrorist targeting high profile skeet ranges if your damascus barrels burst while shooting a round or two? HEHEHE. Sorry couldn't resist.


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Originally Posted By: GLS


It is this simple. Ithaca sells guns. Any company wants you to keep buying new products to keep their profits alive, not hold on to the old until death do you part. In other words, throw away your damascus SxS and buy a Model 37.

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1909 Ithaca with Twist barrels and the "NITRO POWDER PROVED" mark



Still offering these time bombs in the 1918 E.C. Simmons catalog



Then in 1942 Lou Smith claims these same barrels fail with a single proof load?!?

Jack O'Connor Outdoor Life 1942
A good many people resent being told that their much loved old guns were no longer safe. Just for the fun of it, Lou Smith (President of Ithaca Gun Co.) proofed (using 17,500 psi Proof Loads in 1942) a dozen or so damascus and twist beauties which were lying around the plant. Here's the dope: Most of the old timers busted loose with the first proof shell. The rest did with the second. Guns tried were cheap, medium priced and expensive: but all of them went. So if anyone wants to go ahead using modern smokeless stuff in a gun built for black powder, he can; but he can include me out.

The Parker GH Damascus barrel studied by Sherman Bell took 29,620 psi before the chamber blew.

Just trying to be helpful wink
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=432872

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The legal department wanted to limit the product liability. They have written a document with an extremely broad brush that can then be trotted out in a court room to say, "See? We told you so. We fulfilled our product safety obligation."

Last edited by David; 01/29/16 05:25 PM.
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