doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gastinne Renette 16GA - Help With Proof Marks

Good morning all. I just won a 16 gauge SxS Gastinne Renette at an auction. I have not received the gun yet. I did some search here and learned that Gastinne Renette was a gunshop and not always a gunmaker firm. This is my first French gun. The gun is #2 of a pair. I learned that the proof marks are from the Paris proof house and it has the standard proof for finished guns. Chambers are 2.5" (65). Barrels are from Leopold Bernad. Any information you can provide me on Gastinne Renette, Leopold Bernard, and the proof marks would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you. BillK

According to my proof book it has a "Voluntary provisional proof with a proof pressure of 14,223psi."

The other two side by side marks are described as "For a finished gun that underwent re-enforced proof." Later it gives a pressure for a 16 gauge with such proofs as 14,934psi.

Overall it's a bit confusing, I'm certain others know far more, especially about Paris proof marks.

Steve

That is a great looking gun. Bobby

The EP in an oval is standard proof for barrels "completely finished inside and outside, except the last internal polishing". Pressure is listed as 14,200 psi. However, that's based on information back when they were still measuring pressure with lead crushers (LUP in some older reloading manuals) rather than electronic transducers, which is the current method. So it's more like 15,000+ psi. The mark repeated twice on each side of the flats is definitive black powder proof for a gun in a finished state. Special proof because it's repeated: 11,400 psi (which would again be 12,000+ the way we currently measure pressure).

Canonnier a Paris means barrelmaker in Paris. Leopold Bernard was probably the premier French barrelmaker back then.

What I don't see is a star over P plus another letter, which would indicate the type of smokeless powder used in the proof. Should be there, according to my source, for a gun any newer than about 1896. Not sure why it's not there. Anyone else?

It does look like a nice gun in very good condition, albeit a bit plain considering it's #2 of a pair.

Any clue as to the maker? The best of Gastinne guns were sidelocks made by Granger, in my opinion. However, the Granger guns I have examined were easy to identify from markings.

BillK,

That's a nice 16GA you won! I've never seen a forearm with that style of latch in the front. Could you post some close ups?

A 16 gauge would ordinarily have bores around 16.8mm. (.6614"). The 16.0 mark indicates a bore diameter of .630". That's pretty tight for a 16 gauge.

I have been to Gastinne Renette in Paris a number of times. It is on rue de Franklin Roosevelt next to one of the finest restaurants in Paris. GR used to make guns (some of very high quality), but like many famous Brit 'gunmakers' it is now a retailer of trade built guns, country fashions, etc. They do have a very nice gun room - two, actually.

I do not know whet ether they actually made your gun, more likely that they outsourced the gun. When I was last there, P. Arrizabalaga was making guns for them in Spain.

That is a nice, interesting gun.

Even "back in the day", Gastinne Renette sold guns they didn't make, or had made for them in France. Not at all unusual to see Belgian proofs on a GR-marked gun. But with the Bernard barrels and Paris proofs, this one goes back far enough that it's much more likely that GR played a hand in building it as well as selling it.

I had one GR-marked OU--very nice gun--based on the Petrik design. That's the original design of the OU's with a sliding breech hood which Remington used for the Model 32; Krieghoff since then. The difference with the Petrik OU's is that they were often quite light and designed as field rather than target guns. There's a 16ga on the Safari Outfitters website currently. 28" barrels, weighs less than 5 1/2#.

Thank you all for your input.
Is the number 1908 on the water table a year date or some type of a serial number?
I have not received the gun yet. I will post more detailed pics once I receive it.
BillK