doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com examining damascus barrels

I think you are correct David. Also who ever got the letter scrapped his old gun and bought a shiney new Ithica.

They sure don't like twist barrels over on shotgunworld and neither did Jack O'Connor.

In this thread they're really going to town so much that a moderator threatens to suspend or ban anyone who opens another thread about the subject. Never did like that forum very much anyway.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=432969

Did you notice that the argument kept changing:
1. "Damascus barrels were never proved."
Pitifully wrong

1902 H.H. Kiffe catalog - "The barrel of this gun has been proved with 9 1/2 drams of powder, and 2 1/2 ounces of shot."



2. "Damascus barrels were never proved for Nitro powder."
Wrong.

Chain Damascus Smith proved c. 1931 when at Hunter Arms for repair



J.& W. Tolley 12b hammerless



3. "Damascus barrels were never proved WITH Nitro powder." Like peak psi with BP somehow is different than peak psi with Nitro?!?
Very likely wrong, but Steve Helsley is going to confirm with the Birmingham Proof House that if Nitro Proof is requested for re-proof of a Damascus barrel, that Nitro powder is used.

1888 J. Blanch reproved in 1999 (Crown over R) using Nitro Powder (according to an e-mail with the Birmingham Proof House) for CIP Service pressure 740 BAR = 10,733 psi; Maximum statistical individual pressure 850 BAR = 12,328 psi; and Standard proof 930 BAR = 13,489 psi. Courtesy of Greg Baehman.



And variant #3a "Early smokeless powders, that were referred to as Nitro ie. "E.C." and "Schultze" are not modern smokeless powders."

Proved with "E.C." No. 3



4. Then finally 850 BAR service pressure proof is not adequate...because I say so despite CIP standards

St. Augustine "It is no advantage to be near the light if the eyes are closed."

Mr. Wakeman should run for political office with his double speak ability. He is very informative about a lot of different shotguns but with old doubles I think he is a little out of his league.

He's not the first idiOt to declare he's a gun X'spUrt....

You boys are on dangerous ground even to think of disagreeing with a certain shotgun "expert" who knows all, on sgw.

He'll never meander over to this site our guns are too old and obsolete.

I wonder what he would think of James Purdeys NEW damascus shotgun ? not alone are the barrels damascus, but (horror !) the action too. Probably means its twice as dangerous !

http://www.purdey.com/guns-rifles/damascus-guns/

Bonny: that Purdey is manufactured using Damasteel http://www.damasteel.com/
Production methodology
http://www.damasteel.com/production.html
http://machinedesign.com/article/damascus-steels-from-powder-metal-1118

In a 2009 press release "Purdey's Secret Weapon", Purdey announced the production of an all Damasteel shotgun.
"All parts other than springs, tumblers, seers, cams and non-visible screws and pins are fabricated from (Damasteel.) Each visible part of the gun- action, forend iron, triggerplate, bow and guard, rib, fins, etc.- were cut from re-forged billets so as to procure the best display of the pattern available in the steel."

HOWEVER
W.W. Greener produced new shotguns with vintage damascus barrels in 2007-2008.
From the Greener website in 2007:
"Barrels - are made of the highest quality steel and bored to maintain the famous choke boring improvements, made by W W Greener in the 1870s, to optimise shooting performance, and to ensure patterns of shot guaranteed to meet customers' exact requirements whether for game, wildfowl or clay pigeon shooting. A few pairs of guns are being made with interchangeable steel and Damascus barrels."

Courtesy of Vic Venters (Dec. 2008), who wrote an article in the Sept/Oct '07 issue of Shooting Sportsman regarding the Greener guns:
"They are indeed newly made damascus barrels, built on vintage tubes that David Dryhurst -- Greener's master gunmaker -- has been collecting since the '60s and '70s. Some are old Greener stock, some are English and no doubt some are Belgian. A few of these sets came from Dyson...They are not lined. The guns are being made in 28-ga up through 12, and maybe in 10-ga. At least 25 of these damascus-barreled guns are made or are under way, and I believe more have been ordered since I last asked. At the time of my writing, none had failed English proof. The guns are proofed under standard CIP pressures per the particular gauge.
Most are on sidelocks; some are on reintroduced "G-Guns" -- Facile Princeps actions with Boss ejectorwork. Greeners are a small best maker -- but demand has been so great that I am told they have again closed their order books. They were the last British maker to manufacture their own damascus tubes, and are the first to again offer them in commercial quantities."

Also see the October 2013 "The Field"


Griffin & Howe offered a new Purdey hammergun with vintage 3 Iron Oxford tubes, in 2013.
"The Damascus barrels are proofed for 2 3/4" modern smokeless loads."


Bill Blacker & Sons is currently manufacturing replacement barrels using vintage damascus tubes
http://www.billblacker.co.uk/