doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gastinne Renette 16GA - Help With Proof Marks

Germain Leopold Bertrand Bernard was born in Versailles 1808 and died 7-11-1870. His firm continued to operate 1870 to 1879 at 49 Rue de Villejust, and in 1889 was at 129 Av de Versailles in Paris but ceased operations in 1890. Other pre-WW I Gastinne Renette doubles have been identified with his mark and Whitworth steel tubes.

It is not known if another barrel maker acquired the Leopold Bernard trademark after 1890, but clearly someone did.

c. 1890s Fluid Steel Roblin



Fluid Steel Matska
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&PHPSESSID=



Not much more information here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fMs-Mn60ei9QsRcHT5Urm_eHobzJnaDKZiP3FP0fXb0/edit

Chukarman, I guess it's been a while since you've been in Paris. A bunch of my favorite gun shops are no more, including GR. H & H closed their shop on Victor Hugo several years ago too. Over many years I toured them all, even the little out of the way places. Gave me a reason to study French, well the women too of course.
nial

I'd say 1908 is the date on the example with tubes wearing canonnier L�opold Bernard but permit the Galloping Betail Sauvage to concur.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Do you have any evidence of Gastinne Renette guns being produced by G. Granger? That's a new one on me, and while I'm willing to listen and learn, I suspect it isn't supported by any evidence.

Per the bore mm markings (16.0) noted above by Miller, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the gun is actually a 20 gauge when it shows up. 16.0 is more in line for 20 gauge then for 16 gauge.

Let me state, unequivocally, this gun is not a G. Granger.

It does look like a nice gun.


Best,
Ted

Ted;
I was thinking the same thing about this gun may have been misidentified as to gauge. That 16.0mm would be .015" overbore from nominal for a 20ga but .032" under for a 16. It could of course go either way.
I seriously doubt that it's an 18 gauge, though even in my very meager shell collection I do have one 18ga shell.

That's a good point, Ted. I had an overbored Sauer 20 (A&F import from the 30's) that came fairly close to .630. Correctly stamped 19, so the overbore came as no surprise. And I currently have a Francotte 20 that's stamped 15.9, and the bores check out. Agree with you and Miller that it's more likely to be a 20 than a 16.

I visited GR in Paris during 2001-02, shortly before they closed. We discussed the sourcing of their guns and they confirmed that current SLE's came from both from Granger and their own shop in the basement. They, as did many trade names, sourced as needed (time, money, talent, request by customer, etch.) over the years.

The above gun looks very Liege-ish to my eyes. That is no bad thing, either. I'd guess GR bought it in in-the-white and finished it up in their shop.

If the new owner is interested, I'll run it through my value system - an interesting gun.

DDA

It would be very interesting to see if it is a 16gGA or a 20Ga when it arrives. The Belgian 20GA I own (I have posted pics of it here in the forum) was advertised as a 16GA... It was a nice surprise when I held it in my hands. If this is the case with this one also, it would be my second gun that "shrinked" to a 20GA. I will keep you all posted once I receive it.
Rocketman, yes, I would be interested in running it through your value system. Can you explain it and tell us how it works?
BillK

very nice shotgun!
it all makes sense as a Paris proved gun.
1908 is likely the manufacturing date.
I note the L date code for the Bernard tube set. I think that this date code is early 1900, indicating that the tubeset had been laying around for a little while.
This gun bears no indication that it was made in Belgium, and I would vote for a GR shop made gun.
BTW, the Scott fore-end release is far more French than Belgian.
I am looking forward to seeing more pics.
Best regards,
WC-

I forgot to comment on the 16.0 indicating barrel bore diameter. This is weird, being between 16 and 20 GA...
Please measure the bore when you get it.
WC-