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#536908 - 02/10/19 12:28 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: HomelessjOe]
canvasback Offline
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Registered: 10/16/09
Posts: 5581
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
I've always had trouble understanding your Bohemians & the German gun e'ffliction for lack of a better word....

They made nice rifles but I've never seen one of their shotguns I'd own.

While the English and American gun makers were playing "tittlywinks"...start a thread and show us what they offered that stood the test of time.

James Purdey the double under bite...W.C. Scott the top lever...John Browning gun designs too numerous to list and a lot still in use today.

Start a thread and top those 3.



Here's the edited version...

Canvasback do you ever tire of your childish games.


What game am I playing jOe?

I pointed out the value of researchers and historians and corrected a factual error.

Do you ever tire of running down those who don't think exactly as you do? Because that was the only point of your post wondering why Argo is interested in Reillys. To denigrate him and his interests.

I would hope that when I make factual errors in my posts that someone corrects me.
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#536910 - 02/10/19 12:37 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1637
Loc: McLean, Virginia
Could I ask you all to please don't start this personal crap, here - send PM's instead. I think this is a very good historical line; it's the most complete line of information on Reilly anywhere in the world and has been pretty professional thus far. If you dispute that Reilly made guns, we'll talk about it. Thanks.
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#537046 - 02/11/19 07:33 AM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
HomelessjOe Offline
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 14454
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
I only talk to my friends in PMs...
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#538793 - 02/22/19 07:57 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1637
Loc: McLean, Virginia
======================================Reilly Serial Numbered - non Serial-Numbered====================================
While continuing research on Reilly manufacturing capabilities in London, I'd like to post a few Reilly guns that look like Reilly made them, but no SN....which to me means Reilly did not claim to have built them. I can submit dozens of these including a lot of pistols of indeterminate make (not Adams, Colts, etc) but this should make the point that some Reillys, which look very "Reilly," were not claimed to have been made by him.

========================================================================================================================
12 bore SxS Muzzle Loader pin fire: No SN
This gun is currently for sale: Muzzle loading SxS hammer gun. Name on the rib is E.M Reilly & Co., London" with "Reilly London" on the hammers. No visible SN. Normally with the EM Reilly & Co., it would mean the gun were built after October 1859. Note, there are pistols and other guns with "EM Reilly" (no "& Co.") on the rib that were before made before the changeover in the company name. These guns have no Reilly SN. However, with "& Co.", this muzzle loader was built after Oct 1859 up to about 1885 or so (there is a E.M. Reilly & Co. muzzle loader in existence with 277 Oxford street on the rib - .ie. post November 1881).. The gun has a London Proof....but no SN...thus I believe it was ordered, not made, by Reilly. Comment: This stock has the most drop I've ever seen in a Reilly.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/494/1/AAR-823

This fine antique double barrel percussion shotgun is stocked in checkered figured walnut with crisp locks, and barrels engraved E.M. Reilly & Co. London on the upper rib. London proof house markings, 12, and a small R.W. stamp. Both locks are expertly hand engraved with scrolls and Reilly & Co. below the breech.



Compare it to SN 8578 with J.C. Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London on the rib:



========================================================================================================================
British Enfield 1853 Rifle Muskets:


No SN: Two band Enfield made for Yoemanry militia.



SN 11227: Compare with the below classic 3 band Enfield with a crown stamped on it. (Note: This is the first extant Reilly with "E.M. Reilly & Co." on the gun - 1859.



Or to SN 11419, 2 band Enfield - with only "Reilly and an unclear address on the barrel:




========================================================================================================================
No SN: 8 bore Single Hammer pin fire:
. (LEFT)
Gavin said this gun has no SN and Birmingham proofs. I concluded that Reilly sold it - he didn't make it.
http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0024&LotRef=295
Description: E. M. REILLY & CO. AN 8-BORE SINGLE BARREL HAMMER GUN 34 1/4-inch round to octagonal three-stage barrel with 3 1/4-inch chamber, about true cylinder boring, the frame, non-rebounding bar lock, hammer and rotary underlever with scroll engraving, 14 1/2-inch figured stock including 3/4-inch extension, 9lb. 9oz., nitro re-proof S2
top



RIGHT: Compare it to SN 10314, Reilly 6 bore muzzle loader with "Reilly, New Oxford Street, London" on the rib:

========================================================================================================================
4 bore, Muzzle loading Hammer gun
(TOP)
No SN. Restocked in South Africa (for a left hander?)...but Birmingham proof. I've concluded it was sold by Reilly, not made by Reilly:

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2347-391/
4 bore belted ball hammer percussion rifle muzzle loader. Tapered octagon twist bbl is mounted with one standing leaf rear, and “certifiable antique elephant ivory” blade front sight. Top flat is engraved “E. M. Reilly & Co. London”. Bottom flat is stamped with Birmingham black powder proof. . Case hardened patent breech is engraved with large open scroll. Case hardened breech iron with integral fence is engraved with large shaded scroll. Large bar action lockplate is mounted with tall, round bodied, slightly serpentine hammer. Hammer and lockplate are engraved with more large open scroll. “E. M. Reilly & Co” is on front portion of plate. Trigger plate is mounted with germanic type double set triggers, and trigger must be set before lock can be cocked. Trigger guard with squared bow has shell finial, and is also scroll engraved. Full length stock with swan-necked butt, is of indeterminate tropical wood (restocked in South Africa?); blued steel buttplate. Stock features large germanic style swept shadow line left hand cheekpiece. A hand forged ramrod is held by single plain pipe. Weight: 16 lbs. 6 oz.



Compare to SN 84XX, 6 bore Reilly, 502 New Oxford St., London (1848) - BOTTOM

========================================================================================================================
No SN: 4 barrel gun:


Beautifully made. Reilly advertised four barrel guns in the 1850's, early 1860's. Name, address on the rib is E.M Reilly 502 New Oxford Street (post Oct 1859) and the label is the classic Reilly label for 502 with medals existing from 1856 until the sketch of the building was done away with in August 1860. But no Serial Number and it may have been proofed in Birmingham:

http://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-...42-c-a92474cb0a

Description: A rare cased four barreled percussion gun by Reilly, dating: mid-19th Century, provenance: London. Round, smooth barrels; the upper ones are 11 mm cal.



========================================================================================================================
No SN: 12 Sidelock made by Reilly for Oaks & Co., Madras, India (No SN mentioned)




Compare to 33619



Edited by Argo44 (01/29/20 09:28 PM)
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#539006 - 02/24/19 11:10 AM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1637
Loc: McLean, Virginia
To follow up on this Serial Numbered - non-Serial Numbered Reilly guns, here are a few pistols. This was addressed on page 8 above but I'll repost it.

1). Reilly early on made pistols as well as long guns and serial numbered them. Here is a May 1831 advertisement.


Two of the very earliest still existing Reilly's are pistols. Here is SN 176, formerly owned by Terry Buffum:


Yet the last SN'd pistol I can find would be dated around 1837. Here's a pistol almost identical to 176 but no SN. Whether Reilly made it or not...he didn't claim it:


========================================================
He sold Colt derringers, all sorts of revolvers, pepperboxes....you name it. He engraved these and put his name on it....but the name of the manufacturer was always there. There are pistols with no manufacturer's name except Reilly and no SN, most with London proof marks. I assume he contracted for these and engraved and sold them retail (though he could have built the en masse and just sold them). The addresses and names on the guns can be confusing though. Here are some similar examples:

========================================================
No SN
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/cased-pair-of-j.c.-reilly-percussion-traveler-s-p-FE943AD9A8
Description: Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -A) Reilly Pistol Cased Pair of Engraved J.C. Reilly Percussion Traveler's Pistols with Accessories -The pistols are likely from the 1840s and are marked "J.C. REILLY LONDON" on the top of the barrels which have post and notch sights, swivel mounted ramrods, and banded breeches. The locks are marked "REILLY" on the bottom edge below the hammer.


Compare to this one - also No SN but with EM (& Co.) (not sure I believe this advertisement) allegedly on the gun:
An early 19th century double barrelled percussion pistol, by
E.M.Reilly & Co 11.5ins £250-300
http://www.icollector.com/An-early-19th-...1-5ins_i1254067


Or this one by Reilly:
No SN, A 19th century percussion service pistol by Reilly of London with 8½ damascus barrel engraved steel lock with walnut full stock captive ramrod brass furniture and lanyard ring “
https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/aucti...9d-a56000f4806b


=========================================================
Here are o/u pistols by Reilly with no SN, proofed in London, sold by Reilly. If he made them, he didn't claim them:

A good example of a 19th century over and under percussion pistol with the original belt clip. Reilly, New Oxford Street, London
http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-and-antiques/detail/reilly-double-barrel-pistol/163836


Barrel stamped "Reilly. New Oxford St. London." London proof marks.No SN
https://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/373432


12mm Pistol by E.M.Reilly & Co LondonNo SN (the "& Co." dates it post Oct 1859)
http://www.jjmilitaryantiques.com/Home.aspx/Catdet/JJ20235?nm=english-4-shot-percussion-swivel-barrel-pistol-by-reilly&category=euroweap&bread_last=%2FHome.aspx%2FCatpage%2Feuroweap%3Fpsize%3D10%26sortseq%3DName&category_desc=Longarms%20%26%20Pistols%20European%20Pre1898#.WjT2ShiZPMU


========================================================================================================================
Left: SN 1292. From my chart I dated this 1837 - this is the last Reilly serial numbered pistol I can find so far:
http://www.garthvincent.com/antique/1597/a+miniature+pocket+pistol/
A Miniature 120-Bore Box-Lock Percussion Pocket Pistol By Reilly of London, Circa 1850. With round turn-off barrel engraved with a band of foliage at the breech, signed scroll engraved action, signed 'Reilly' on a scroll on the left and 'London' on a scroll to the right, blued concealed trigger, finely chequered walnut butt with diamond shaped escutcheon and stamped with a serial number on the inside edge, '1292', in untouched condition. 



Right: Compare it to the above fine similar engraved pistols - no Serial numbers:
Engraved and Silver-Inlaid Small English Boxlock Percussion Muff Pistols by Reilly, c. 1840 frames marked: Reilly/ London.
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20britannique/artisan%20p%20q%20r/a%20reilly%20gb.htm

I've looked at hundred of pistols....finally abandoned it since they had no SN's after 1837 and couldn't help the chronology. But more study might help in understanding the names and addresses put on the ribs of long guns. It also reinforces the understanding of the entrepreneurship and financial diversity of the company,.


Edited by Argo44 (01/29/20 09:36 PM)
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#539008 - 02/24/19 11:13 AM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
HomelessjOe Offline
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 14454
Loc: The Great State of Tennessee
You think you were a Reilly salesmen in a previous life ?
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#539065 - 02/24/19 05:42 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: HomelessjOe]
JBLondon Offline
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Registered: 07/17/17
Posts: 112
Loc: London, ON Canada
...


Edited by JBLondon (02/24/19 10:18 PM)
Edit Reason: keeping thread clean

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#539067 - 02/24/19 05:55 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Drew Hause Offline
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Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7950
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Sorry, late to the party, but possibly of interest.
"An Afternoon At Wormwood Scrubs"
A.B. Frost in The Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News April 6, 1878. Hammersmith and Fulham, West London.
Lower right appears that gunners and dogs waited for "clean up' past the boundary line.


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#539078 - 02/24/19 07:56 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1637
Loc: McLean, Virginia
Thanks Doctor. Interesting. That explains this part of the 1882 rules from Holt's shooting Calendar:



Edited by Argo44 (02/24/19 09:02 PM)
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#539216 - 02/25/19 08:35 PM Re: E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers [Re: Argo44]
Argo44 Offline
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Registered: 02/21/16
Posts: 1637
Loc: McLean, Virginia
I'd like to finish this business about Revolvers and pistols because I spent an awful lot of time early on looking at Reilly hand-guns. In the end I could find no consistent way to identify them other than the age of the pistol itself. Even in the 1850's pistols were being engraved "Reilly, London"," E.M Reilly, London" etc.

Anyway he retailed a lot of revolvers of almost every type...including ones imported in parts from Belgium and assembled by Reilly in his buildings from really 1851 when Colt made such an impact at the Crystal Palace World's Fair up to the time the firm went belly up. (and some are extraordinary such as the gold washed Trantor-that did not come from Trantor like that). This may have been part of the reason late 20th century experts began to say he never built anything himself. Here are a few in collage form. I'll let you all identify what's what. (hint: Includes Colt, Smith&Wesson, Adams, Webley, Beaumont-Adams, Webley-Sykes, Tower Bulldog, Trantor...)





=======================================================================================
VAMPIRE KIT:
And by the way...here are a couple of neat 1835-47 (address is 316 Holborn on the guns) Reilly hammer pistols firing silver bullets. (Note how similar they are to the last SN'd Reilly above 1292). I think we may need this kit for this board:

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/02/11/19t...or-grabs-photos
A kit that includes everything from a matched set of pistols with silver bullets to wooden stakes and a mallet recently hit the market.
New Jersey-based International Military Antiques posted the one-of-a-kind Vampire Defense Kit this month on their site. Tied to Sir Philip Burne-Jones, an English painter who specialized in portraits that included one of Rudyard Kipling, the kit dates to about the 1890s when Burne-Jones was working on his painting, The Vampire, which came out the same year as the Gothic horror classic, Dracula by Irish author Bram Stoker. The painting later proved one of Burne-Jones’s best-known works.
Among the more interesting contents of the velvet-lined case are a set of apothecary bottles, wooden stakes along with a mallet to drive said stakes through the heart of a blood-sucker, an 1859 Bible, silver rosary, and a pair of .50-caliber percussion pocket pistols, marked “Reilly of London.”



Burne-Jones Painting:


That's it for hand-guns unless more serial numbered Reilly's come to light. If anyone wants to see derringers, pepper-boxes, Houdah's, Flobert's, I have saved dozens....won't help much with Reilly Chronology though.





Edited by Argo44 (01/29/20 09:41 PM)
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